Here's a good article on the surveying profession. I've been retired for 7 years and I still get people asking me if I can do a small job. Uh, no.
https://www.proplogix.com/blog/how-a...-your-closing/
The article is 3 years old but if anything the situation is worse.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Have you heard that, I think in NC or SC, the surveyors are suing the state to require them to only allow licensed surveyors to fly drones?Originally Posted by Borderland
the surveyors are finding that people don't need them as much with drone-generated orthomosaics of the site to document existing conditions. Which isn't to say that surveyors aren't needed, but there's a good example of tech stepping in and causing lower demand for labor.
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It wouldn't surprise me if they aren't angling to make some new tech their domain. They tried to get a law passed here to require all photogrammetry to be managed by a licensed surveyor. Photogrammetry was developed during WW2 for photo recon and has been in use since. GPS enhanced the accuracy to the point that many boot-on-the-ground surveys for site engineering were no longer needed. Then came GPS controlled Lidar which is an aircraft to ground laser measuring technology. Mapping from the air is state of the art now and traditional methods are now only used where the canopy is too thick for penetration. I'm not up to speed on drones but they probably use the same technology.
The fact is many jobs that were being done by surveyors can now be done without them. About the only thing saving the profession now is the state statutes that require a professional surveyors stamp on legal documents like plats and subdivisions. In some states you can't transfer title without an ALTA survey. That was the doing of the American Land Title Association and the National Society of Professional Surveyors who lobbied state legislators.
I worked mostly in bridge and road construction but I had a license for boundary work. It's GD hard to get one of those these days with the experience and educational requirements that states are mandating.
Last edited by Borderland; 07-14-2021 at 12:25 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Maybe 10 years ago one of the local surveyor/civil-engineering firms we used bought a laser scanner. They were one of the first companies I knew directly that had one. Today I believe laser scanning, and sometimes scan-to-as-built-model, is a big part of their business.
It strikes me that if you have to legislate your stake, you're probably (a) no longer the best person to do the job and (b) on your way out anyway.
I'm trying to get a Total Station and a "layout guy" added to my team to go out and do field checks for us on our projects. Hopefully we don't get sued by any surveyors
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Even that is getting cut back significantly. We run “survey” crews out of our engineering offices (state-side) that do both roadway and boundary work, all of whom are “supervised” by one licensed surveyor in a completely different development office. I’m pretty sure he hasn’t seen 95% of the plats we’ve sent him for approval, but hey, apparently that’s what the licensing board is fine with.
I simply cannot comment on “skilled trade” labor. What I can comment on is the service industry. As I type this, I am sitting out side a coffeeshop (imagine that, me and coffee, but I digress). I just had a conversation with the manager on this topic. They are opening a second location, and the bottleneck is the interviewing and training. It has become cliché for new hires to fail to show on the second day of training. They simply can’t hire enough people to staff the upcoming opening. Another friend of mine is the GM for a local chain of restaurants—he called this “the worst labor market in 20 years,” and “a total shit show.”
One of the venues I book pulled half of the weekly concerts on the summer series, because they can’t keep enough staff to stay open into the evening to run the mid-week concert night. Totally an employee thing: they will hire people and train them for a week, then they ghost. Over and over again, like Sisyphus and that damn rock, only it’s apps/interviews/orientations repeat… all summer.
Every grocery I’ve been in (a whopping 3, but still) has a “now hiring sign” up. All the McDonalds have “15/hr text to apply” lettering on their outside reader boards all over town.
I’ve never seen anything like it. Supposedly, WA’s enhanced unemployment lapses this month, so things may change, but right now, it’s a spectacle to see, for sure.
At any rate, carry on…
”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB
Maybe 10 years ago one of the local surveyor/civil-engineering firms we used bought a laser scanner. They were one of the first companies I knew directly that had one. Today I believe laser scanning, and sometimes scan-to-as-built-model, is a big part of their business.
It strikes me that if you have to legislate your stake, you're probably (a) no longer the best person to do the job and (b) on your way out anyway.
I'm trying to get a Total Station and a "layout guy" added to my team to go out and do field checks for us on our projects. Hopefully we don't get sued by any surveyors
I don't think you'll get sued. A friend of mine used to moonlight doing layout for a small contractor. He wasn't licensed at the time but he knew his way around construction. All you need is a good construction surveyor and generally construction isn't mentioned on any requirements to hold a professional license. As a matter of fact it's rejected in some states. That's ironic because good construction surveyors can make more money in a building boom than licensed surveyors doing boundary work. Usually the large civil/surveying companies grab those guys and bill them out at 3x overhead. No boundary work evolved, just a contract for construction surveying services.
Laser scanners. Whoa baby can those things measure. We had one. We used it to monitor walls and abutments. The problem was we had no CAD staff that could manage the data and produce a 3 dimensional finished product. We sort of got ahead of ourselves technologically speaking.
Last edited by Borderland; 07-14-2021 at 01:32 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Ive always been been a proponent of people learning a trade or two or three trades. The work is there if you are willing to work and it pays damn good. Look at carpentry one of the cheapest trades to get into. Its difficult to make good money in that trade. But there is no licensing or formal testing for skills base at least in my area. The areas that pay are electrical, hvac, controls, auto mechanic. The trades that have strict experience and training requirements are where Id point someone if they are interested in that kind of work.
I'll wager you a PF dollar™ 😎
The lunatics are running the asylum
It has been this way on Tool and Die for a while now and has only gotten worse with recent events. The shops in my area are always looking for employees. From entry level to master Toolmakers such as myself. There aren't enough skilled guys to go around, and none of the young people want to get into the trade because you have to actually work and may get dirty. We have had a number of people last less than a day.
The owners have brought a lot of this on themselves by trying to hold wages down and by changing the way they run apprenticeships and even Toolmakers. Most of the shops have went to specialization so they don't have to pay as much for a guy like me who can do it all. This has bit them in the ass because now they don't have enough people to see a project through from beginning to end.
By us at least welders, plumbers, HVAC are all on similar situations. Everyone thinks they are owed college and an easy job. Well I went to college twice and didn't have to pay for it either time. I just had to work my butt off, both as a tool and die maker and as a cop.
I work in the trades for a municipality. I'm pretty new to the trades.
A big problem I see on this side is unrealistic expectations from my employer. They want an experienced 20 year plus journeyman electrician or carpenter for $16 and hour, and there is no room to promote later. Once your in there might be a small yearly pay bump but there is no where to go. The pay and benefits dont rival alot of the private sector jobs, and the amount of experience they want means those they do get age out every few years. Guys like me who are in apprentice type positions are in short supply too, but whats really needed is skilled labor. And you just can't get that for cheap.
With FL's minimum wage growing over the next few years until it hits $15/hr something has to give. Every guy in our shop will quit and go be a walmart greeter before they bust there ass in the trades for the same money. It's going to sting for people who were $x an hour over minimum and are now far less over it. That's the loss of a lot of buying power.
I sympathize with small business that are hurting for workers. But it wouldn't hurt some bigger employers to remember they need employees as much as employees need a job. The handouts need to stop, the unemployment needs to get reeled back in too. But alot of places need to value good workers. Ditch shitbags and actively retain/keep people who put out results.
This stuff is all probably scatterbrained, and doesnt make sense. It's mostly related to my employer and some changes happening here.
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