Self defense for a women's office?

[Casual Friday]

For the present, would it bust the bank to hire a big old high school student to watch the office while the clinicians work?

That sounds like a terrible idea for a lot of reasons. Aside from the liability concerns, a high school student isn't trained for that sort of thing, and putting them in that kind of situation would be irresponsible. What kind of parent is gonna allow their high school student to take on a job like that in the first place?

[Caballoflaco]

None of the offices have desks between the client and the counselor, My wife has a desk on the opposite side of the room. Most offices are set up so its a chair (sometimes 2) next to each other opposite of a couch where clients sit. There is nothing in between the couch and chairs with about 6 feet separating them. Most of the counselors have a set chair that they spend 30+ hours in per week, so that's really the only place to stage any self defense items. Perhaps something pointy...

It sounds like OC shouldn't be ruled out, with perhaps a gel medium. I have never thought about a fire extinguisher, and it has the added benefit of looking benign to anyone who might notice it.

That set up makes me thin a fire extinguisher in the office is a bad idea then. Any of those folks, especially if they have been to prison will be very familiar with environmental weapons and will absolutely see a fire extinguisher as a possible weapon. Hell, I’ve never been arrested or in trouble with the law and one of the first things I do when I’m bored sitting somewhere is to look around the room for expedient weapons. Also, a female counselor probably isn’t going to win a race to the fire extinguisher and they’re heavy/awkward enough that it’s going to be hard for them to maintain control of it in a fight with a larger dude. I would keep extinguishers where they need to be per code and maybe have one hidden behind the front desk if ther is one, but not in the office in the open.

One other thing you could do is a quick walk through and make sure they don’t have big metal lamps or anything that makes you say “I could easily bludgeon, stab etc. someone with that” . Any lighting should be mounted to a wall or in the ceiling. Stone sculptures are right out as well. If they want plants you can get decent enough looking plastic pots for that too. Nothing sharp enough to enter a human body or hard enough to break a skull should be loose and available on the rooms.

[octagon]

That set up makes me thin a fire extinguisher in the office is a bad idea then. Any of those folks, especially if they have been to prison will be very familiar with environmental weapons and will absolutely see a fire extinguisher as a possible weapon. Hell, I’ve never been arrested or in trouble with the law and one of the first things I do when I’m bored sitting somewhere is to look around the room for expedient weapons. Also, a female counselor probably isn’t going to win a race to the fire extinguisher and they’re heavy/awkward enough that it’s going to be hard for them to maintain control of it in a fight with a larger dude. I would keep extinguishers where they need to be per code and maybe have one hidden behind the front desk if ther is one, but not in the office in the open.

One other thing you could do is a quick walk through and make sure they don’t have big metal lamps or anything that makes you say “I could easily bludgeon, stab etc. someone with that” . Any lighting should be mounted to a wall or in the ceiling. Stone sculptures are right out as well. If they want plants you can get decent enough looking plastic pots for that too. Nothing sharp enough to enter a human body or hard enough to break a skull should be loose and available on the rooms.

I would agree with the premise if there was security and clients were checked for weapons. I assume that is not the case in this incident so if it was my wife or loved one I would prefer her to have some sort of weapon to help defend herself. Nothing stops the client from bringing their own weapon (even a pocket knife). In general a woman may already be at a disadvantage size and strength wise. Add in possible weapon brought by a client and limiting factor such as pregnancy and having some sort of equalizing tool is important. Having it not visible and on person or much closer to the counselor than client even more so.

[DDTSGM]

That sounds like a terrible idea for a lot of reasons. Aside from the liability concerns, a high school student isn't trained for that sort of thing, and putting them in that kind of situation would be irresponsible. What kind of parent is gonna allow their high school student to take on a job like that in the first place?

I was thinking someone to be there to give the alarm in case of fire or disorder. High schooler's seemed most likely to be willing/able to work a couple hours on short notice.

I saw much difference in risk probability compared to high schooler's working in convenience stores, delivering pizza, etc.

How about I rephrase - hire someone at minimum wage to be there on the occasions when someone is seeing a client after hours.

Better?

[Casual Friday]

I was thinking someone to be there to give the alarm in case of fire or disorder. High schooler's seemed most likely to be willing/able to work a couple hours on short notice.

I saw much difference in risk probability compared to high schooler's working in convenience stores, delivering pizza, etc.

How about I rephrase - hire someone at minimum wage to be there on the occasions when someone is seeing a client after hours.

Better?

I wouldn't want to rely on a minimum wage person for that sort of thing but to each their own.

[Caballoflaco]

I would agree with the premise if there was security and clients were checked for weapons. I assume that is not the case in this incident so if it was my wife or loved one I would prefer her to have some sort of weapon to help defend herself. Nothing stops the client from bringing their own weapon (even a pocket knife). In general a woman may already be at a disadvantage size and strength wise. Add in possible weapon brought by a client and limiting factor such as pregnancy and having some sort of equalizing tool is important. Having it not visible and on person or much closer to the counselor than client even more so.

The not visible part is what I was really getting at. Not that the counselors shouldn’t have staged or concealed tools.If they don’t want a desk between them and the client then maybe a small nightstand style table next to counselors chair would provide a good hiding place. Another obstacle that might seem less “distant” or formal than having a desk between the counselor and client could be a coffee table (if there’s room) I think we’ve all seen somebody jack themselves up trying to cross a room and getting caught in the shin etc by a coffee table that’s just low enough to be out of the line of sight.

The last thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet in this thread is an auto-locking or controlled access front door that is always locked to prevent injury, but unlocked/escapeable from the inside to prevent people from entering. People are going to people and accidentally leave the door unlocked, this would prevent a client from dropping in for an unscheduled appointment while one of the counselors is in a session, or just not paying attention. Also helpful to keep them from having to deal with randos who have no business there.

[Gumbo]

The not visible part is what I was really getting at. Not that the counselors shouldn’t have staged or concealed tools.If they don’t want a desk between them and the client then maybe a small nightstand style table next to counselors chair would provide a good hiding place. Another obstacle that might seem less “distant” or formal than having a desk between the counselor and client could be a coffee table (if there’s room) I think we’ve all seen somebody jack themselves up trying to cross a room and getting caught in the shin etc by a coffee table that’s just low enough to be out of the line of sight.

The last thing that I haven’t seen mentioned yet in this thread is an auto-locking or controlled access front door that is always locked to prevent injury, but unlocked/escapeable from the inside to prevent people from entering. People are going to people and accidentally leave the door unlocked, this would prevent a client from dropping in for an unscheduled appointment while one of the counselors is in a session, or just not paying attention. Also helpful to keep them from having to deal with randos who have no business there.

This is a good idea, and was installed at her previous location. The door from the waiting room had an automatic lock with a key pad on it and only the counselors knew the code. I'll definitely put this on my to-do list.

My wife had a small coffee type table at her last office, but after a blind client took himself down by hitting it more than once, she moved away from the idea.

I'm thinking a small nightstand style table next to her chair might offer a decent compromise to hide a decent sized can of OC or something sharp and pointy...

[Clusterfrack]

My wife had a small coffee type table at her last office, but after a blind client took himself down by hitting it more than once, she moved away from the idea.

I'm thinking a small nightstand style table next to her chair might offer a decent compromise to hide a decent sized can of OC or something sharp and pointy...

Some years ago I had a problem with female students and colleagues getting too close in my office. For some reason, female office visitors felt comfortable sitting on my desk surround right next to my chair (desk faces away from the door). Males never did this. In most (but not all) cases I think it was innocent. I decided a physical barrier was needed to enforce a safe and professional amount of space. That had the added advantage of giving me a place to tape a Mk. 4 OC fogger.

[JohnO]

I think I should start thinking about this issue. My daughter is completing her Masters degree in clinical psychology/counseling right now. She is completing her course work and practicum over this and the next two semesters graduating in May 2022. Currently she is counseling heroin addicts at a facility near her school in Ohio. I have no idea what the security is like. She is 5' 2" and maybe 100 Lbs. soaking wet.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

I forget the exact number and source but recall significant percents of assault. A fellow student when I was in school lost his front teeth to client. He was doing his internship at a hospital and the client jumped out of the first floor window. Instead of just calling for help, the student climbed out the window after the client. The client was waiting for him and belted him the face a few times before help arrived. That's a lesson - take care of yourself.

Here's some references from the helping professionals lit.


https://www.apaservices.org/practice...encounters.pdf
https://www.apa.org/monitor/2008/04/client-violence

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6698260/
Experiencing and Witnessing Patient Violence - an Occupational Risk for Outpatient Therapists?

Pretty good recent 2019 article.

Social workers: https://naswcanews.org/when-a-client...tigating-risk/

Here's a case study for you. Dr. Silverman violated the rules. That is a decision for the individual. IIRC, he wasn't punished.
https://www.npr.org/2014/07/26/33548...of-gun-arrests