I don't like the flexed finger, I use finger straight resting on the side of the slide underneath the ejection port.
I don't like the flexed finger, I use finger straight resting on the side of the slide underneath the ejection port.
Paul Gomez's take on the same subject. I will say that I took MAG-40 and MAG-80 in Arizona already well habituated to the ejection port register, and did not fry my finger.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HrEKFweLvUM
From a non-gunhandling angle, the anecdote about the subject who caused a discharge from a cop's gun by yanking on it was interesting. In a sane world, that would be filed under the "stupid games, stupid prizes," category. A lot of Ayoob's overzealous prosecutor stories from the 70s and 80s may have increased relevance in today's legal/political environment.
I prefer the finger straight, up on the frame of the weapon.
He does a nice job of presenting why he believes the flex is better than straight based on what I feel are subjective observations:
1) The flexed finger being less of a danger in cases of startle, stumble or sympathetic contraction. The flexed finger is already in the beginning stage of the contraction it needs to make to come onto the trigger, all it needs to do is slip off the frame. On the other hand, the straight finger has to come off the frame and flex in order to contact the trigger. As he noted earlier, there is also a chance that the straight finger would contact the front of the trigger guard which would provide an additional obstacle to prevent an ND/AD.
These thoughts lead me to prefer the straight finger, on the frame of the pistol, until someone runs objective tests to determine otherwise.
2) Faster getting on trigger to fire from flexed versus straight. Instinctively I believe this to be true, but my question is appreciably faster for good hits? Is, let's say, .02 of a second worth the potential shortfalls I outlined above?
Again, I'd like to see some objective BLIND testing before hanging my hat on flexed being substantially faster so as to make a significant difference.
3) Straight finger and disarming. Do academies that teach straight along the frame/slide have significant numbers of dislocated index fingers during weapon retention training? My experience leads me to believe that this only going to be an issue if the officer freezes, because otherwise the officer is actively moving in some manner to counter the threat.
All that being said, I think that both positions (finger flexed and finger straight) offer adequate safety from postural and startle induced ND's.
BTW: I've posted this before in another thread - I routinely flatten the ends of the slide stops on my 1911's to make it harder to push the slide stop out. The result is that I use a Glock tool to push the slide outward while holding the pistol in what Ayoob describes as the 'armorer's grip.' I'm a lefty, and at one time my support thumb was responsible for pushing the slide stop out enough to induce stoppages, hence the flattening.
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I personally prefer the straight and high finger index because I can establish that index safely when I’m establishing my grip for the draw while the pistol is still in the holster. Trying to do that with a bent index finger seems real similar to the same way you would activate a serpa holster. Yeah, your finger might be higher than the serpa button, but it still feels like the biomechanics are less than optimal for not getting into the trigger guard or onto the trigger pre-maturely.
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Just my hand, and all that, but I like high and straight as my happy place. Curving anything drops my finger right into outer chamber walls of everything I own. For me, the flexed finger is also lower on the gun, as my first joint trigger finger clears pistols entirely, and I’ve had positive comments from USPSA veterans to me as a newbie for making my trigger finger easier to see.
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That video embedded:Originally Posted by JJN
Stumbling onto Paul Gomez videos (after his passing) was some of my first exposure to intelligent gun handling and technique. His stuff remains relevant, and makes sense to me. I dislike the bent finger. It doesn't feel natural for me, and the sympathetic response is a thing.
I don't care for the ejection port register position. It gets damned awful hot, and it's not viable through a USPSA match with my 92. I tend to use the takedown lever of my 92. I've tried the register on an ejection port... and it got pretty hot. Maybe I'm a wuss. I have no idea.
That is absolutely a thing. In the early days of teaching integrated fighting with guns, I had a number of close calls with people both with almost severely damaging the finger with it straight alongside the frame, and degloving with fingers inside the trigger guard.
Under a high stress situation, unless someone has specifically trained A LOT to do otherwise, they will leave the hand/fingers in exactly the same place that they were in at the start of the stress situation. People tend to have poor proprioception with the fingers, and that is amplified under stress, or when they are learning a new technique (such as a weapon retention move). I have had at times to actually move students fingers for them because they could not get the mind-body connection to do it themselves.
Is that true of everyone? Not at all, but it tends to be very true with newer and less trained people, especially folks who did not have a high level athletic background.
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I don't touch the ejection port myself. I tend to touch the EDGE of the port, It never picks up that level of heat, but it still gets my finger away from the trigger.
But the overall point of what Gomez and Craig have always taught is not that everyone should be touching the barrel/port. Some people physically can't, and some have an issue with the heat build up. The point, and Paul talked about it in another video (or maybe a post on TPI), is that it gives us a goal to be in a hard register with, in opposition to the nebulous idea of "finger off the trigger". I remember a long phone convo with Paul circa 2009 when I was running a SIG 2022 and the ejection port was just too high to put my slightly bigger than average finger on. He said "put it as close as you can and stop worrying".
The PRINCIPLE is to give the finger something active to do that is not being close to the trigger. Period. The physical application is up to the person for their specific context/ability.
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That’s always how I understood it after listening to a podcast with Craig years ago. I try to use the Shivworks “ejection port” high register as well.
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Same. Works “perfectly” on some guns but not others, but having the habit means my finger is always up high, on autos at least. On small autos it’s ahead of the port but extending past the top of the slide. On my LCR I can’t reach the cylinder flute that would approximate the port location without breaking my grip, so my finger ends up along the frame with the top edge pressing against the cylinder.
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