Does .45 ACP Expand from a G30?

[HCM]

I seem to remember reading aomewhere that .45 doesn't reliably expand from a shorter barrel, as in a G30? Anyone with experience on this?

Does it reliably expand from 4.5" barrels, such as a G21?

Thanks.

".45" is too generic a description to be useful. You need to specify what loading, bullet weight, bullet type etc. There are a lot of factors which go into proper ammo performance just with factory loads. For example some ammo manufacturers like Speer in their Gold Dot line offer both standard and short barrel loadings.

Then factor in that terminal ballistics testing is something that is easy to do but hard to do correctly such that you get accurate results. Lots of misleading Youtube videos out there.

So does it really matter whether or not it 'expands?" A more pertinent question would be does it over penetrate and is it likely to exit a body ?

The common standard for this is rounds which penetrate between 12' and 18" in FBI spec ballistic gel testing. With all handgun rounds, shot placement is the most significant factor, followed by rounds not exiting the body.

As mentioned there is an ammunition sub forum, in that subforum there are a bunch on "pinned" threads at the top authored by Doctor Gary K Roberts (DocGKR), one of the the preeminent terminal ballistics researchers in the world. He lists factory .45 loading which perform to standard in testing.

Start here: https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo

[Navin Johnson]

We need to start an ammunition "sticky" section......

[Rack]

Currently carrying these in my 4" lw champion
Attachment 73344

255gr at 900fps

What are those bullets? Did you cast them yourself?

[03RN]

What are those bullets? Did you cast them yourself?

Bullets are from rimrock
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....-acp-load-data

[jd950]

Since the OP asked about aGlock 21, I assume we are talking .45 ACP. I also assume he was asking about defensive use. Most people carrying defensive guns don't reload. They carry factory ammunition, either ball or JHP. Since the OP asked about expansion, I will go out on a ledge here, and assume he was not asking about wadcutters or semi-wadcutters or ball.

In general, .45 ACP performs sub optimally out of "short" barrels and one would be better off with a different caliber. I think expansion is questionable in 3 and 3.5" barrels for most JHP ammo. I am sure there ares some exceptions. Once barrel length gets to something like 4" or more, then properly designed .45 ACP JHP ammo is not handicapped so much by the barrel length. A 4.6" barrel should not be the cause of ammo performance concerns, in my opinion.

[Joe Mac]

For what it's worth, I just looked back on some chrono work I did with a G30 in 2011. Using 230 Gold Dot and HST (standard pressure), varying lots on different days, the average velocities I got ranged from a low of 802 to high of 836. I'd say that's well within the performance window these bullets are designed for. The G30 barrel isn't all that short, really.

I used a G21 for comparison in a few cases, and only gained about 25 fps from the extra .83" or so of barrel.

[Archer1440]

Ok then,

I will take my seat.

Please inform me of your experience in shooting hard cast bullets through the .45 ACP Glocks.

What experiences led you to the conclusion that the G30 is not well suited to shooting non jacketed ammo?.

You’re right, my personal experience on that matter is limited. While I have launched my fair share of (mostly Meister) lead projectiles, I haven’t shot any lead from a G30, personally.

My comment was based on the following:

1. Heavy leading observed in a borrowed Model 21 (gen 2) Glock pistol shooting SWC/Win231 in under 200 rounds at the Beverly Hills Gun Club (which wasn’t actually in Beverly Hills at all- but in west LA) in November of 1992. I don’t recall the bullet manufacturer, but the bullets were sold as “hard cast”, and loaded by myself on a Dillon progressive owned by a friend of mine at his home in Mar Vista. Groups opened up. Diagnosis was that leading in the barrel was causing the issue. After a thorough (and difficult) cleaning, I switched to plated bullets, and didn’t encounter any further issues. I personally never tried bare lead again in polygonal barrel pistols, particularly after I went to a P7 for carry.

On the other hand, I shot ~50K rounds of Meisters through a Springfield TRP (Storm Lake barrel with standard button rifling) with zero issues (other than a ridiculous amount of smoke, and needing to clean my Super 1050 pretty often) from 2000-2002.

This was during a period of also putting 50K/year of Meisters, plated Berry RN, Federal jacketed factory ammo, and jacketed Hornady HAP rounds through two Springfield Professionals (with Nowlin EDM cut barrels) with no issues, and easy cleanup, from 2001-2003.

I stopped shooting lubed lead projectiles entirely in mid 03, mostly due to being tired of dealing with the mess and smoke.

So, you’re right, my personal experience is limited in this matter, biased by my bad experience in the distant past, and I should not have said anything about it. Will try to do better going forward.

[Wayne Dobbs]

Glock doesn't recommend cast bullets in their pistols and that's fine, but you can do it. It's more a matter of bullet fit in the throat and bore than hardness. Lubrication is also a factor. Lost River has likely forgotten more about bullet casting than most of us on this forum and when you add in new member Outpost 75, we have world class knowledge and experience on the matter. You shouldn't fire just any lead bullets through Glocks, but if you know what you're doing with bullet alloys, lubrication and fit, it's no thing.

Plus, that elk harvested with .45 Auto Rim warms my heart. I've killed quite a few whitetails with .45 AR and cast SWC bullets and all were one per customer kills, with none going more than 25 yards. Large caliber, large meplat bullets kill very well. And...G21 rifling is octagonal, per the Armorer's Course.

[okie john]

It's more a matter of bullet fit in the throat and bore than hardness. Lubrication is also a factor.

This has been my experience as well. The most accurate load I ever found for 9mm Glocks used a cast bullet in the factory barrel.



Okie John

[Stephanie B]

I have read that Bill Allard of the NYPD stakeout squad used a hard cast 200 swc at 1000fps in his 45 acp 1911. No idea if the article was accurate like the internet is but even fmj 45 ball stays in the body more than not from what I have read ( again may not be interent forum level accurate ).

Yes, but back in the day, there wasn't exactly a lot of choice for styles of bullets.