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Thread: Does .45 ACP Expand from a G30?

  1. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Hunters need deep penetration, and are a lot less concerned about Rule Four- with potential overpenetration and associated consequences beyond the target.

    I would just point out that this is not the case for responsible concealed carry, which I would presume would be the issue at hand as we are discussing a G30- a pistol that isn’t well suited to shooting non-jacketed ammunition in the first place, due to polygonal rifling.
    I genuinely wish people would stop just simply repeating what they have read on the net and actually get some actual experience before they offer up advice.

    People read "You must be limp wristing" and You can't shoot lead through Glocks" and just repeat it over and over ad nauseum.

    The G30 has octagonal rifling, as does the G21.

    I have shot many tens of thousands of hard cast bullets through multiple .45 ACP Glocks and never, not once had a single issue. I know my G21 I used for USPSA was well north of 50K, between using it for work, competition, teaching and pretty much everything else. It lived on a diet of 200 grain H&G SWCs and Clays.

    The fact is that you absolutely can shoot hard cast lead bullets through factory stock Glock barrels with no issue at all.

    In regards to "over penetration", it is not hard to tailor a given bullet, such as the one 03RN has pictured above to perform within your desired parameters. To imply that using hard cast SWC/hunting style bullets is not what a "responsible concealed carry" type person does shows a serious lack of understanding of the subject at hand, as do the comments about not being able to shoot hard cast bullets through .45 ACP Glocks.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Lost River View Post
    I genuinely wish people would stop just simply repeating what they have read on the net and actually get some actual experience before they offer up advice.

    People read "You must be limp wristing" and You can't shoot lead through Glocks" and just repeat it over and over ad nauseum.

    The G30 has octagonal rifling, as does the G21.

    I have shot many tens of thousands of hard cast bullets through multiple .45 ACP Glocks and never, not once had a single issue. I know my G21 I used for USPSA was well north of 50K, between using it for work, competition, teaching and pretty much everything else. It lived on a diet of 200 grain H&G SWCs and Clays.

    The fact is that you absolutely can shoot hard cast lead bullets through factory stock Glock barrels with no issue at all.

    In regards to "over penetration", it is not hard to tailor a given bullet, such as the one 03RN has pictured above to perform within your desired parameters. To imply that using hard cast SWC/hunting style bullets is not what a "responsible concealed carry" type person does shows a serious lack of understanding of the subject at hand, as do the comments about not being able to shoot hard cast bullets through .45 ACP Glocks.


    Regardless of your uninformed analysis of my experience level, perhaps you should let Glock know that due to your insight, they should change their clear guidelines on the matter, posted on their website. (Also, “octagonal” is indeed “polygonal”. An octagon is a polygon, after all.)
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  3. #13
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Regardless of your uninformed analysis of my experience level, perhaps you should let Glock know that due to your insight, they should change their clear guidelines on the matter, posted on their website. (Also, “octagonal” is indeed “polygonal”. An octagon is a polygon, after all.)
    Because hard cast bullets are grey in color, does NOT make them “lead” bullets.
    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...duct_list&c=59

  4. #14
    Of course it's going to depend on the ammo you use but I would say generally yes it should expand. This is a test I did with some Winchester White Box and it did expand out of a Colt Defender with a 3 inch barrel.

    https://general-cartridge.com/2020/0...allistics-gel/
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  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Regardless of your uninformed analysis of my experience level, perhaps you should let Glock know that due to your insight, they should change their clear guidelines on the matter, posted on their website. (Also, “octagonal” is indeed “polygonal”. An octagon is a polygon, after all.)

    Ok then,

    I will take my seat.

    Please inform me of your experience in shooting hard cast bullets through the .45 ACP Glocks.

    What experiences led you to the conclusion that the G30 is not well suited to shooting non jacketed ammo?


    You stated that "Hunters need deep penetration, and are a lot less concerned about Rule Four- with potential overpenetration and associated consequences beyond the target."

    Are you an avid handgun hunter?

    How is it that you have come to the conclusion that handgun hunters disregard basic safety considerations and associated consequences?


    Your comment "I would just point out that this is not the case for responsible concealed carry" in response to my post about using heavy for caliber hard cast bullets in the G30 implies that type is an irresponsible act.

    So please inform me how using a hard cast bullet is irresponsible, based on your experience.

    You have the podium.

  6. #16
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    I have read that Bill Allard of the NYPD stakeout squad used a hard cast 200 swc at 1000fps in his 45 acp 1911. No idea if the article was accurate like the internet is but even fmj 45 ball stays in the body more than not from what I have read ( again may not be interent forum level accurate ).

  7. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Archer1440 View Post
    Hunters need deep penetration, and are a lot less concerned about Rule Four- with potential overpenetration and associated consequences beyond the target.

    I would just point out that this is not the case for responsible concealed carry, which I would presume would be the issue at hand as we are discussing a G30- a pistol that isn’t well suited to shooting non-jacketed ammunition in the first place, due to polygonal rifling.
    There's a sticky in the Ammunition section titled 'The Presumptive Hazards Of Over Penetration' that's as applicable today as it was 10 years ago.
    [CF/Moderator edit]

    Quote Originally Posted by DocGKR View Post
    8/23/11

    Failures to stop a suspect because of under-penetration, poor bullet placement, and completely missing the target are far more significant problems than over-penetration. With shots to the center of mass, if a handgun or rifle bullet fails to have enough penetration to reach the large blood bearing vessels and organs in the torso, rapid physiological incapacitation is unlikely and an opponent may remain a lethal threat to officers and citizen bystanders. Conversely, if a bullet fired by officers completely penetrates a violent criminal and exits downrange, the bullet will certainly have had enough penetration to reach the large blood bearing vessels or organs in the torso. As a result, it is more likely to have caused sufficient hemorrhage to induce hypovolemic shock--the only reliable method of physiological incapacitation in the absence of CNS trauma.

    Unfortunately, according to the available published date, the majority of shots fired in the field by U.S. LE officers miss their intended target. According to published NYPD SOP-9 data, the NYPD hit ratio by officers against perpetrators in 2000 was 12.3% of shots fired and in 2001 13.5% of shots fired. The Miami Metro-Dade County PD had hit ratios ranging between 15.4% and 30% from 1988-1994. Portland PD reported hits with 43% of shots fired at adversaries from 1984-1992, while Baltimore PD reported a 49% average hit ratio from 1989-2002.

    Given that the reported averages for LE officers actually hitting the suspect ranges between 12% to 49% of shots fired, more concern should be given to the between 51-88% of shots fired by LE officers which completely MISS the intended target and immediately result in a significant threat to any person down range, rather than excessively worry about the relatively rare instance where one of the 12%-49% of shots fired actually hits the intended target and then exits the perpetrator in a fashion which still poses a hazard.

    In short, the consequences of projectile under-penetration are far more likely to get officers and citizens killed than over-penetration issues.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by 03RN View Post
    Because hard cast bullets are grey in color, does NOT make them “lead” bullets.
    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...duct_list&c=59
    The "hardest" regularly used bullet mix is Linotype which is "only" 84% lead.
    And if anybody is regularly using pure lead bullets besides muzzleloaders, they aren't advertising it.
    Last edited by Clusterfrack; 06-25-2021 at 08:03 PM.
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  9. #19
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    I'm dropping in to remove some comments that aren't focused on the question.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    I'm dropping in to remove some comments that aren't focused on the question.
    Maybe move to the Ammunition sub forum ?

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