Massachusetts State Police Upgrades to Smith & Wesson M&P[emoji2400] M2.0 as Official

[stinx]

I suspect it's a winter/multiple layers of thick clothing penetration sort of thing, given the geographic locations of the states we're discussing.

Given the improved performance of all JHP cartridges in recent years, has anyone tested the comparative penetration with multiple clothing layers with contemporary duty/defensive cartridges to see if there's still validity to the premise of .45 ACP's superiority in this performance area?

I've got to admit, .45 ACP/.40 tend to be my default cartridge/platforms in winter as well, so I'm kind of curious.

Best, Jon

This is And old thread the Massachusetts state police have started transitioning to Sigg P3 29 mm the current recruit class has been issued guns with optics a Sigg optic I don’t know which one

[spinmove_]

I suspect it's a winter/multiple layers of thick clothing penetration sort of thing, given the geographic locations of the states we're discussing.

Given the improved performance of all JHP cartridges in recent years, has anyone tested the comparative penetration with multiple clothing layers with contemporary duty/defensive cartridges to see if there's still validity to the premise of .45 ACP's superiority in this performance area?

I've got to admit, .45 ACP/.40 tend to be my default cartridge/platforms in winter as well, so I'm kind of curious.

Best, Jon

Isn’t that the point of the 4 Layers of Heavy Denim as well as 4 Layers of Clothing protocol?

[EzGoingKev]

The Mass state Police are switching to Sig P-320 with Optic. Word is the current recruit class has been issued pistols and have completed firearms training. YMMV

I just spoke to my friend on MSP.

He confirmed they went with the P320 with an optic and that it has been issued to the current class. He did not have any more info other than he was told they went from .45 to 9mm. He did not know what optic they are using or when he would be turning in his M&P for one.

[EzGoingKev]

I just spoke to my friend on MSP.

He confirmed they went with the P320 with an optic and that it has been issued to the current class. He did not have any more info other than he was told they went from .45 to 9mm. He did not know what optic they are using or when he would be turning in his M&P for one.

The part in bold is not confirmed. He said he had been told they were going back to 9mm for over a year now so he figured the new guns are 9mm.

[stinx]

The part in bold is not confirmed. He said he had been told they were going back to 9mm for over a year now so he figured the new guns are 9mm.

I know the rep from the company that sold them the holsters for the 320’s. They went with 9mm I was told even the stop team has moved away from their S@W 1911’s

[HCM]

Spoke with a colleague who works in MA.

He was recently on an op with some MSP detectives. They saw his RDS P320 and the mentioned they heard they were going to “those” but didn’t know when.

He advised Boston PD SWAT has been using 320 X full sizes with Romeo 1 PROs and there were rumors BPD is considering at switching to a 320/RDS.

I suspect the MSP’s success (or lack there of) with theirs will be a factor.

[jnc36rcpd]

According to Mike Conti's books and statements, MSP went to a point shooting program some years ago. I'd be intrigued to learn if this was integrated into or abandoned in favor of the RDS. I experimented with point shooting years ago to a limited extent, but was never convinced to abandon front sight/press.

I will remark that Conti's "Police Pistolcraft" os an extremely valuable book for shooters and instructors even if you only believe and use sighted shooting.

[HCM]

According to Mike Conti's books and statements, MSP went to a point shooting program some years ago. I'd be intrigued to learn if this was integrated into or abandoned in favor of the RDS. I experimented with point shooting years ago to a limited extent, but was never convinced to abandon front sight/press.

I will remark that Conti's "Police Pistolcraft" os an extremely valuable book for shooters and instructors even if you only believe and use sighted shooting.

The CHP taught a point shooting program at one point. We shared use of a local PD range with them for a while. TLDR I was not impressed and they eventually got kicked out of the range because the seemed to shoot the shit out of the range infrastructure, but the targets…. not so much.

This was 15 years ago and my understanding is there have been real improvements in CHPs firearms program.

[jnc36rcpd]

Lou Chiodo also influenced me to look at point shooting. To his and the agency's credit, Conti said that MSP was going to have a university look at the hit ratios of point shooting after the program hit ten years. He admitted that while MSP had some shooting, there were not all that many.

I understand the argument for point shooting training, but transitioning from point shooting to sighted fire seems, optimistic. Flash sight picture seems like the best compromise.

[stinx]

Spoke with a colleague who works in MA.

He was recently on an op with some MSP detectives. They saw his RDS P320 and the mentioned they heard they were going to “those” but didn’t know when.

He advised Boston PD SWAT has been using 320 X full sizes with Romeo 1 PROs and there were rumors BPD is considering at switching to a 320/RDS.

I suspect the MSP’s success (or lack there of) with theirs will be a factor.

I heard the same in regards to Boston. I also heard that there are two high ranking officers that are banging heads. One wants to stay with Glock,the other wants to go Sig. I was told nothing will happen until these guys can come to an agreement.YMMV