Ban-Compliant Defensive Rifles in the 2020s

[entropy]

I believe some of the issue (if there is any of measure) with the Enfield was a combination of manufacturing tolerances both within Britain at the time as well as across the Empire (or what was left of it). Much like Garands or M1 Carbines here, there are certain manufacturers that have a reputation for producing slightly better examples than others. Don’t forget as well that while Stateside, the folks that made Garands went home after their shift to their homes, the folks at Maltby went home to Heinkels and Messerschmitts. The British doctrine at the time revolved around the use of stripper clips. The thought of separating the magazine from the gun was relatively unheard of. The typical British soldier had gear that was designed to support the Bren, and the fact that he carried an Enfield was kinda secondary.

Sorry for the tangent and (politely intended) rant. I’m a bit of an Enfield nerd.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Why did I look at the Tikka catalog - they have a 10 round T3x compact tactical rifle that comes left handed (me)! Do I really need an apocalypse, ban rifle and explaining it to my dear one?

[Rex G]

Why did I look at the Tikka catalog - they have a 10 round T3x compact tactical rifle that comes left handed (me)! Do I really need an apocalypse, ban rifle and explaining it to my dear one?

Well, there ya go, enabling/tempting me, too.

[HeavyDuty]

In my research, I've discovered that in normal use the Lee Enfield magazine was loaded with only 5 rounds, not 10, which significantly reduced the possibility of magazine feed lip spread (althought I strongly suspect that the rifles used by the British Army and Commonwealth units in contact with North Koreans/Chinese in the Korean War and their human wave/mass attack strategy probably kept their Lee Enfields fully loaded up, at least when there was a likely possibility f significant contact).

The analyst in me wonders if the ten round absolute capacity with five round stripper clips was mainly a way of always being able to top off your weapon during combat - you have two remaining, add five etc.

[Malamute]

I see no problem with both having a couple/few spare 303 mags and having strippers available. I never had a spare magazine with any of mine but the idea has valid potential.

I wish Id latched onto one of the decent examples ive had in the past, but life circumstances dictated otherwise at the time. The best examples were a No1 MkIII* Sht LE I put a brand new South African barrel on and a No4 (peep rear sight) that was already modified, so I cut it down to 19", trimmed the forend and moved the band back a couple inches, and used a 1917/P14 front sight on.






Regarding the subject matter at hand, Im mostly satisfied with a Winchester 94 angle eject carbine cut to 16" with a Leupold 1-4 scope in Leupold bases and low rings. Im putzing around with the idea of a side folder stock to make it more compact for vehicle travel/motorcycle packing. If it becomes reality Ill post some pictures.

Whatever the perceived fragility of levers to those wishing to pursue high round count classes in short time periods, thats not what I do with mine. They have functioned more reliably for me than even Mauser sporter actions, and I rarely have more than 40-50 rds on me when out walking about, or 250 rds close by when in the vehicle and away from home. Theyve always worked very well in what ive done with them. Used within non-intense firefight situations, which seems pretty unlikely in anything I realistically foresee, they seem to work rather well.

It somewhat reminds me of people that severely use and abuse revolvers in extremely rough ways to make the fastest possible reloads, then break them, and say they arent reliable. I dont use mine that way, so thats not a very useful metric for me. Some would say I abuse my guns by the little cleaning and maintenance they received when I camped out in the hills for extended periods in all weather. Theyve always worked in that type of neglect/use/abuse, and Im satsified they will work when I need them in the future.

[Bigghoss]

Speaking of the internal-mag clip-fed semi auto ideas like the Mini M1 Garand in .300Blk/5.56/whatever, I was thinking about it and, while the designs are definitely different, isn't the SKS effectively the same concept? 10 rounds, fixed mag, charged by clips (but with the capability to top off easily or load singles), no pistol grip, and even in New Yorkistan they are legal if the bayonet is removed and the lug for the bayonet is ground off (from what I've been told by NYers). Even in the latest AWB proposals, it did not include SKSs that still had the fixed 10 round mag and traditional wood stock. And the ammo is cheap to boot, with domestic sources of 7.62x39 being viable although less cheap. In terms of performance, 7.62x39 is similar to a supersonic 125gr .300BLK. DocGKR has a handful of vetted loads that perform very well listed somewhere on this site I believe.

I wonder how the reliability of a new-condition rearsenalled Russian SKS would be compared to, say, a Colt LE6920 or quality AK variant. Or in other words, how it would hold up to a weekend carbine class which tend to show what guns will poop the bed and what will work. I also wonder how it would compare to an M1 Garand in that regard.

I've got my fair share of trigger time on the SKS, though I will be the first to say that I am far from an expert. I feel like the gun itself is durable and reliable enough but it does have a few issues:

1.) The safety is just barely outside the trigger guard and you pull it down and back to take it off, right next to the trigger. That makes me nervous for a serious use defensive rifle.

2.) Difficult to modernize. I have not found a good way to mount anything to the gun. There's maybe two quality chassis systems for the SKS but at the moment both have pistol grips. One is made by Sage international and they make chassis for other rifles that use a sporting stock (more recent versions even use a Magpul SGA) so they could probably make an SKS chassis without a protruding PG but it's not a cheap setup.

3.) Maybe I just need more practice but the stripper clip loading isn't particularly quick or smooth. Better than single loading but much clunkier than one might expect.

Since gunowner repression is typically incremental, I see the opportunity to shop for a stair step arsenal, so you always have the best legal weapons on hand.

Live legal M16 until they cancel your stamp.
AR15 until Ugly Features are banned.
Mini until detachable box magazines are banned.
SKS and Benelli until semi autos are banned.
Lever action and 870 until repeaters are banned.

And the last resort, a Biden Special double shotgun. Bear in mind that shotguns are always the last and least restricted firearm. You will still be prosecuted for using it in self defense, it has happened in England that I know of.
Join the Skeet club, that will give you a Socially Acceptable use for it.

I think this is the best approach. It seems very unlikely that any coming ban won't include a grandfather clause. But even if it doesn't it's pretty futile and pointless to try and decide what the best gun would be in a hypothetical situation that we don't know all the parameters for. Whatever the ban does end up saying, gun manufacturers and/or the aftermarket will come up with something that is as effective as the laws will allow. It just might take a bit. Detachable mags get banned? Someone will make a semi-auto 5.56 that uses stripper clips and maybe someone else will make something that uses en bloc clips like a Garand. Semi-autos get banned? Then hopefully a new generation of lever and pump action rifles gets developed. The market for these types of guns was pretty small before so the few that did get made (7615p is a prime example, Stoger Double Defense is another) had a lot of shortcuts taken. Hopefully if that's the kind of stuff we're all forced to use the companies making them will do them right. Even if they don't, a guy could do a lot worse than some of the stuff that's already on the market.

[CSW]

Maybe I won’t sell my FR-8 after all. Get a tricornio and off I go.

FR-8's are pretty awesome rifles.
I've had two, and foolishly traded them away.

[JonInWA]

The analyst in me wonders if the ten round absolute capacity with five round stripper clips was mainly a way of always being able to top off your weapon during combat - you have two remaining, add five etc.

I suspect that you're right on target, and that was exactly the thought.

Best, Jon

[Malamute]

Maybe I just need more practice but the stripper clip loading isn't particularly quick or smooth. Better than single loading but much clunkier than one might expect.

^^^ The further back you can get your thumb on rounds in strippers the smoother they work.

Besides anticipating possible legislative/executive actions, many like to travel, sometimes to places that already have restrictions. Yes, you can stash your locally non-compliant guns outside the restricted areas, or use things for regular day to day that arent a problem to travel with. As an example, I hope to be able to winter some in Az again, and trips to Death Valley and other places in Cal would be on the agenda as well. I have no particular schedule or route when I go places like that, knowing Im able to easily move about without potential violations of local laws has interest for me. My own personal preferences in pistols and long guns that I carry and use regularly already tend towards ones that arent affected by the restrictions. I seem to be in the minority in that regard, but I can live with it.

[JonInWA]

I'm thinking that the Tikka T3X Arctic is a modernized contemporary hard-use bolt-action scout/defensive/hunting rifle, in a modern, vetted and easily available .308 cartridge. Currently they appear to be unobtanium, though....so I went with a Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1, a magnificently restored shooter.

The only downsides to the Tikka (besides it's current unavailability) is that reloading can only be accomplished by a magazine replacement, or by single-loading through the ejection port-charger clip reloading isn't possible.

And replacement/back-up magazines are pricey, at $100 per....I'm not sure if there are plug-and-play less expensive aftermarket magazine substitutions that'll reliably work.

Best, Jon