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Thread: Ban-Compliant Defensive Rifles in the 2020s

  1. #131
    Site Supporter Rex G's Avatar
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    I think that I’s like a nice, custom-made, side-by-side “stopping rifle,” chambered for something like .357 Magnum. Being ban-compliant would not, of course, be the point.
    Retar’d LE. Kinesthetic dufus.

    Don’t tread on volcanos!

  2. #132
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by entropy View Post
    When it comes to handiness and general capacity, I still don’t think you can beat a lever gun. Once you start decking out some of these bolt guns, you’re better off just going back to a varmint contour rifle with a shorter barrel. Thinner barrels heat up and your POI can change pretty significantly after even a dozen shots without a bit of cooling. There’s a reason rifles like the FR-8 and the Enfield No.5 had such an abbreviated history. There’s a YT video out there of a guy who cut down a SMLE (reinstalled the endcap etc) that looks awesome, but it never really states how well it shoots...
    But the Krag carbine is awesome

  3. #133
    The Nostomaniac 03RN's Avatar
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    I had wanted an iron sighted bolt rifle for stalking. I had a gunsmith mount a ramp on my 7x57 Ruger m77mk2 and used a necg peep with a xs front sight with a vertical stripe.

    It just never satisfied that itch so I cut 3" of the barrel and remounted my Leupold 4x. It works better when I need to verify antlers on jumped deer.

    If I want to hunt with irons I've got my lever guns and M1 now.

  4. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonInWA View Post
    I'm afraid you're mis-reading or misinterpreting some of my points.

    My citing of British Army practices was not to come up with esoterica, but to point out that a major concern was potential feed-lip spread induced by the constant pressure of the pressure 10 rounds-a friend of mine who was the senior gunsmith at his company related to me some years ago that H.P White's research indicated that successively reducing rounds in a magazine resulted in not just a proportionate, but a geometric reduction in feed lip pressure. This issue was both of historical and contemporary merit-and even more so given the limited and diminishing amount of available quality magazines, and the likely need for gunsmith examination and fitting of replacement magazines to individual rifles.

    If you've been successfuly storing and using your Lee Enfield magazines in a fully-loaded state, good on you. And realizing that spring wear is caused more by repeated compression and expansion as opposed to cintinued compression, when you factor in potential feed lip malformation it might be a a better practice to 1) store magazines in an empty, or partially loaded (e.g.,downloaded with 5 rounds), and 2) in use start with a 5 round load, up-loading as situationally indicated.

    The images and apparent practice of at least some of the Canadian Rangers using multiple magazines for reloading as seen earlier in the discussionn thread here (as opposed to using the 5 round charger clips) is interesting. I can understand the desirability in an extremely cold environment, where magazine exchanging might be easier to accomplish than fiddling with the charger clips . However, in my research I came across a 2010 Canadian Defense study, "Canadian Ranger Rifle: Human Factors Requirements Validation" which is exceptional reading, based on in-depth surveys of 4 of the 5 Canadian Ranger Patrol Groups with 135 survey participants. It provides a unique perspective on modern bolt-action rifle use and desirability in constant use in extreme environments. Some of my key take outs from it:

    -A bolt action platform is the most durable and reliable action/operating system in extreme environment use;

    -The Lee Enfields were replaced primarily due to the diminishing of available stocks (at the organizational level-the Canadian Rangers are a 4,000 + person national organization organizationally exclusively armed with rifles (previously the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1*, and now the Tikka C19, a Colt Canada assembled version of the T3X (commercially available as the T3X Arctic). Critical shortage replacement components were replacement magazines and sights (presumably the preferred vernier-adjustable rear sights). These two components alone were most frequently cited for breakage and replacement in the study, with the magazines called out for their bulkiness and need for repair.

    My suggestion/extrapolation is that particularly in organizational use using multiple Lee Enfield magazines as what we envison a detachable magazine with reloads accomplished by magazine removal and immediate replacement with another fully loaded one has not played out well in actual use. Probable causes are: relatively clumsy/poor ergonomics in magazine removal and replacement with another fully charged magazine, gradual feed lip wear inducing operational difficulties, possible feed lip wear induced by frequent magazine replacements, and the necessity for armorer or higher echelon proper magazine fitting for each magazine to each individual Lee Enfield rifle.

    Accordingly, while I'll at some point probably get a spare magazine for my personal Lee Enfield No4 Mk 1, I'll properly vet it for use and then just keep it as a spare. I will utilize the charger clips for reloading, and my initial/administrative default loading will likely be either 5 rounds, or 5+1 round.

    I'll strongly suggest performing a search and reading the Canadian Defense study-it's a great read, with some great nuggets and suggestions for contemporary bolt action rifle use.

    If I could find a T3X Arctic, it would be an ideal choice, due to both its modern construction, ergonomics, iron sights (and provision for after-market RDS and/or optical sights), use of improved materials (stainless steel and laminate stocks), and in its more potent (and logistically available) 7.62/.308 chambering. However, I feel quite well served with my magnificently restored Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 in .303 chambering (pending gunsmith vetting and personal vetting and zeroing).

    Best, Jon

    It's all fine, I'm not misreading I don't believe.
    You've obviously read more and researched more than I intend to on the topic.
    I just base my non scientific hillbilly take on what I've observed amung several rifles and multiple magazines in actual use. Dragging the old dogs around in the wild and dragging extra ammo around in various ways. Living with them. I definitely have no "lab" calculations to back any of it but it's worked for me and a couple others I know, ever since my Lovely Bride bought me a Lithgow and several hundred surplus rounds in bandoleers years ago, the best Christmas ever!

    I just use them because I like them and as neat as the Tikka looks, I wouldn't trade a SMLE for one, personal preference. Logic and science are not a part of my liking/using the grand old bolt gun of the former empire.

    Just like the lever gun guys prefer their levers. None of my choices relate to any possible future legislation, I enjoy manually cycled firearms and don't consider the .45 acp obsolete

  5. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevolverRob View Post
    It's pretty straight forward for me - I'm probably only like five minutes from getting way into Cowboy Action Shooting, anyways - so lever and pump action guns and revolvers can be made to work with some effort.
    CAS was fun when I dipped my toe in it. The people are friendly and helpful, the competition wasn’t intense, the ammo demands aren’t huge. A co-worker and I tried to keep up but the requirement that everyone help thru the whole match didn’t mesh well with our third shift schedules. Home invasion crews probably dread hearing “fill your hand!” from inside a house.

  6. #136
    Wood burnin' Curmudgeon CSW's Avatar
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    Does anyone have any experience with the Mossberg mvp series of rifles, specifically the patrol?
    Looks like a good fit for this particular thread.
    Watched a few lube tube videos, which one of the vids showed some feed issues.
    I wonder if it was ammo, or mag, or.....
    "... And miles to go before I sleep".

  7. #137
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    You da man! Thanks. (To OlongJohnson for posting this

    https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/citations/ADA551150

    Best, Jon

  8. #138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rex G View Post
    I think that I’s like a nice, custom-made, side-by-side “stopping rifle,” chambered for something like .357 Magnum. Being ban-compliant would not, of course, be the point.
    One of the gunsmiths over on the Accurate Reloading Forum posted pix of a .480 Ruger double rifle he recenly finished

    http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...4/m/3161093662

    I’m sure he could fix you up.

  9. #139
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick R View Post
    One of the gunsmiths over on the Accurate Reloading Forum posted pix of a .480 Ruger double rifle he recenly finished

    http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...4/m/3161093662

    I’m sure he could fix you up.
    That is most wonderful.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  10. #140
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    Currently by the ocean in CA and on the move to a more free state. Three more years!
    Another option, along the lines of the PCC, the Ruger 77/357 is a very handy little rifle. It is plagued by the same shortcoming of the PCC but to some that might not matter.

    https://www.thehighroad.org/index.ph...#post-11552379

    My rifle is good to go out to 150. The biggest caveat with this rifle is switching ammo. While it will fire .38 SPL the POI is wildly different from my . 357 load. Even with .357 ammo there is a noticable difference between say a 125 grain and a 158 grain load.

    To the urban dweller or someone who lives in a heavily vegetative environment it might be a viable solution and of course can be paired with a revolver for caliber commonality.

    I would love a Timber Wolf .357 or similar pump rifle in .357.

    Something along the lines of this Remington Model 14 1/2 would be a great little rifle:

    Name:  Remington 14 1_2.jpg
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