Thanks, that Bloke is kind of interesting.Originally Posted by 308Rifle
I'd really like to hear from people who've drug the gun around the snow and ice in every day use, even tho I'll probably never buy one. I would be willing to make something similar from one of my existing bolt guns but then, I revert right back to SMLE's or M-1's.
No apology needed.
So it sounds like the biggest issue with the Lee Enfield is that the guns are old and spare parts are drying or have dried up. I suppose this could be mitigated with buying several spare rifles, but I'd still want to have spare parts so that I don't have to cannibalize others or just straight up retire them completely as wall hangers.
I do remember some, such as the folks at InRangeTV, mentioning something about the Lee Enfield being less reliable than other bolt actions, but I've never been able to find out much info on this.
Upon further reflection, see also the thread "The Passion of the Gun". Some guns just hold more interest for many of us, even though they may not be the newest or most high speed. Thats not always the reason we have or like things (and the entire shooting experience isnt tied only to self defense). If we like things more we are often more inspired to use and practice with them and truly enjoy working with them rather than it being a chore.
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....ion-of-the-Gun
“Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
― Theodore Roosevelt
I would as well, but suspect those that use it regularly live a life that is more away from a keyboard than at one, and so we likely will not see such a review.
It's pretty straight forward for me - I'm probably only like five minutes from getting way into Cowboy Action Shooting, anyways - so lever and pump action guns and revolvers can be made to work with some effort.
I wonder how many people only own firearms they use for Cowboy Action Shooting. I know some hunters don't own any semi-auto rifles or pistols. Just doesn't fit a need or interest. Judging from the number of SAA clones and lever guns for sale it looks like a pretty popular sport.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I would shoot it already if you didn't have to cosplay as a cowboy to do it, along with picking a "cowboy name". That said, on a personal level, I look quite good in a pin stripe shirt and vest. So I could easily pull it off.
Add in Doc Holliday being my 2nd Cousin (2x removed) and now I'd Dr. RevolverRob - The name sort of writes itself...
I always thought CAS was like a western where everyone could have a part. They even call the area where they shoot the stage.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
I'm afraid you're mis-reading or misinterpreting some of my points.Not to drift to far afield, but you're citing bits of well known history in the army's of the British Empire (it's an interesting history but not applicable to this thread) and I'm simply saying none of that holds any sway over modern day users of Lee-Enfields or other rifles being discussed.
Just like the American soldier of WWII would have little reason to top off an enbloc.
Those that use these rifles in 2021 can of course use them as they please. Using them in 2021 is really what the thread topic is about and we need not be limited by what was practiced under war constrained (materials and manufacturing) UK supply chains.
Wartime managers were terrified in the early to mid 20th century of soldiers burning thru large amounts of ammo. America shelved that fear by supplying HUGE amounts of loaded belts and enblocs to our fighting men, thank goodness.
Members of this forum will have to look at their supply of ammo and magazines and plan their work accordingly
ETA: putting 10 rounds in the gun is considerably faster via mag change vs two chargers for me and others I know that use Lee-Enfields quite a bit. I'm sruprised that you find chargers "much faster" than a mag change. I'd love to see you using chargers I might learn something.
And I even polish some chargers smooth and practice manipulation with dummy rounds in search of "speed"
I have mags that have been stored fully loaded for decades that still function 100%, maybe I'm just lucky.
My citing of British Army practices was not to come up with esoterica, but to point out that a major concern was potential feed-lip spread induced by the constant pressure of the pressure 10 rounds-a friend of mine who was the senior gunsmith at his company related to me some years ago that H.P White's research indicated that successively reducing rounds in a magazine resulted in not just a proportionate, but a geometric reduction in feed lip pressure. This issue was both of historical and contemporary merit-and even more so given the limited and diminishing amount of available quality magazines, and the likely need for gunsmith examination and fitting of replacement magazines to individual rifles.
If you've been successfuly storing and using your Lee Enfield magazines in a fully-loaded state, good on you. And realizing that spring wear is caused more by repeated compression and expansion as opposed to cintinued compression, when you factor in potential feed lip malformation it might be a a better practice to 1) store magazines in an empty, or partially loaded (e.g.,downloaded with 5 rounds), and 2) in use start with a 5 round load, up-loading as situationally indicated.
The images and apparent practice of at least some of the Canadian Rangers using multiple magazines for reloading as seen earlier in the discussionn thread here (as opposed to using the 5 round charger clips) is interesting. I can understand the desirability in an extremely cold environment, where magazine exchanging might be easier to accomplish than fiddling with the charger clips . However, in my research I came across a 2010 Canadian Defense study, "Canadian Ranger Rifle: Human Factors Requirements Validation" which is exceptional reading, based on in-depth surveys of 4 of the 5 Canadian Ranger Patrol Groups with 135 survey participants. It provides a unique perspective on modern bolt-action rifle use and desirability in constant use in extreme environments. Some of my key take outs from it:
-A bolt action platform is the most durable and reliable action/operating system in extreme environment use;
-The Lee Enfields were replaced primarily due to the diminishing of available stocks (at the organizational level-the Canadian Rangers are a 4,000 + person national organization organizationally exclusively armed with rifles (previously the Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1*, and now the Tikka C19, a Colt Canada assembled version of the T3X (commercially available as the T3X Arctic). Critical shortage replacement components were replacement magazines and sights (presumably the preferred vernier-adjustable rear sights). These two components alone were most frequently cited for breakage and replacement in the study, with the magazines called out for their bulkiness and need for repair.
My suggestion/extrapolation is that particularly in organizational use using multiple Lee Enfield magazines as what we envison a detachable magazine with reloads accomplished by magazine removal and immediate replacement with another fully loaded one has not played out well in actual use. Probable causes are: relatively clumsy/poor ergonomics in magazine removal and replacement with another fully charged magazine, gradual feed lip wear inducing operational difficulties, possible feed lip wear induced by frequent magazine replacements, and the necessity for armorer or higher echelon proper magazine fitting for each magazine to each individual Lee Enfield rifle.
Accordingly, while I'll at some point probably get a spare magazine for my personal Lee Enfield No4 Mk 1, I'll properly vet it for use and then just keep it as a spare. I will utilize the charger clips for reloading, and my initial/administrative default loading will likely be either 5 rounds, or 5+1 round.
I'll strongly suggest performing a search and reading the Canadian Defense study-it's a great read, with some great nuggets and suggestions for contemporary bolt action rifle use.
If I could find a T3X Arctic, it would be an ideal choice, due to both its modern construction, ergonomics, iron sights (and provision for after-market RDS and/or optical sights), use of improved materials (stainless steel and laminate stocks), and in its more potent (and logistically available) 7.62/.308 chambering. However, I feel quite well served with my magnificently restored Lee Enfield No 4 Mk 1 in .303 chambering (pending gunsmith vetting and personal vetting and zeroing).
Best, Jon
Last edited by JonInWA; 06-25-2021 at 10:28 AM.
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Not another dime.
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