Is a semi-auto shotgun an assault weapon in Washington?Originally Posted by Lester Polfus
Is a semi-auto shotgun an assault weapon in Washington?
No. A 10/22 falls under semi-auto rifle rules but a 1301 does not. (duh! get enlightened brah)
I just wanted to get clarification. So a semi-auto shotgun seems to be the better bet than a semi-auto rifle for a ban-compliant defensive long gun.
Yes but as long as you're 21 there is no restrictions on owning a magazine fed semi-automatic rifle. They are trying though
It sounds to me like this is probably the closest to ideal as it would get if there were the kinds of restrictions on semi autos certain groups are striving for. At that point semi autos would have to be banned entirely to get rid of those too, in which case I suppose the name of the game is pump shotguns despite my aversion to them due to potential short stroking under stress. Other than that, I guess a 10rd bolt action would be one of the better rifle choices in such a situation.
I suppose I should clarify my comments a bit.
Like others said here, there has been so much movement toward defensive firearm ownership by previously uninterested segments of the population this last year that getting them dis-armed will be politically and logistically quite difficult.
Also, comprehensive gun bans on the state level have historically laughable levels of compliance (in California, which has required various forms of registration since 1/1/1990, an estimated .69% compliance as of 6/2018!)
and also very low levels of enforcement. I understand NY is similar in many upstate and western counties, and Connecticut is well under 20%. LEO former neighbors of my mom have told me that even Hawaii has a large number of unregistered firearms.
As we are seeing with the pistol brace situation, the legal rules change often with the political winds, so no one knows what will be legal or not in any given year.
Like @Lester Polfus has said, I think anything meaningful will be attempted at the state level. And like the previous attempts in CA and elsewhere, they will largely be ignored by the populace.
"If I ever needed to hunt in a tuxedo, then this would be the rifle I'd take." - okie john
"Not being able to govern events, I govern myself." - Michel De Montaigne
Well, I guess I'm pretty liberal (especially for a gun forum). I can definitely say that the Jan 6th coup attempt rattled a lot of liberals. It finally sank in just why we need to be armed. My prediction is that the pawn shops will be full to bursting with barely-used gun in about a year. Provided the vaccine is effective against new variant of the SARS-CoV-2 and life returns to more or less normal, a lot of the new gun owners will forget all about it...until the next time. Of course some of the new gun owners will make a startling discovery- guns are a lot of fun! Years ago one of my younger very-liberal and anti-gun friends finally agreed to tag along with me to the range. He was shocked by how much fun it was to shoot. Over the next couple of years his views changed. Guns were no longer just something a criminal might use but a tool that had some usefulness. I wound up moving out west and hadn't talked to him for a few years. Then early last year he e-mailed me a picture of his new BCM AR!Really nice LPVO on it, probably a nicer rig than any of my ARs at the time. And right next to it he had some geeked-up SIG "manbun gun"!
I guess the point is we've become so accustomed to thinking anyone with a different political view is our enemy, not fit to breath the same air as we do. Closer to the truth we're all just Americans, overworked and underpaid, just trying to get through life in a world that's indifferent to our existence. Talk to someone you maybe normally wouldn't socialize with and maybe you'll both learn something.I agree with @Navin Johnson on this.
Regardless of semantics of January 6th (a criminal riot ? Sure, but a coup attempt - not even close. More like a giant temper tantrum. ) the wave of first time gun buyers started LONG before Jan 6th.
There was a wave of panicked buying spurred by COVID lockdowns and fears of shortages of food, toilet paper etc. then a 2nd wave of panic buying spurred by the George Floyd Riots, then a 3rd wave spurred by the “Long Hot Summer,” a 4th wave driven, as expected, by the election, 5th wave post election by people who don’t understand civics and thought Xiden could ban everything at the stroke of a pen, then Jan 6th spurred a 6th wave.
The First wave is what got most first time gun owners thinking about buying / needing a gun even if they didn’t act on it until the events that spurred 2nd and 3rd waves reinforced the idea that a break down of social order (even a temporary one) was a real possibility.
I agree with HCM. The non compliance isn't that useful except for apocalypse time. I've said before if a ban came around that was inclusive of all the semis (and wait for the pumps and levers - like Australia. PS - talking to an Australian, he thought their ban was dandy as he turned in his and got the money for some fancy bolt gun) the risks are:
1. Can't compete. The carbine matches I shot with HCM are out. Our matches had a nice representation of local and Federal law enforcement, so that's an issue. The match director and range owner won't allow it for obvious reason. I've been checking out a local range to use my long arms and was told specifically - NO, non-compliant NYS semis.
2. Use in self-defense - look like a law breaker to the jury if it isn't the proverbial 'good shoot'. Might face gun charges also. Recall Bernard - got by on SD, not guns.
3. Leave in pain in the ass for my heirs. I'm getting into OOPS, I just dropped dead - range. I don't need my non-gun expert wife or kid to deal with a stash.
4. Oops, you get turned in for a zealous prosecutor. Some work enemy, your little kid or adolscent blabs. Your EX - says - show me the money or you get turned in.
5. The civilian industry and retail are destroyed. Yep, lots of bolt guns will be sold. Here I saw shotguns flying off the shelves in the various panics.
I know that folks are noncompliant. I don't want to know if you are. Don't tell me.
I'm thinking about a new SW 66 if the market opens up or maybe one of those Pedersoli 410/45 pistols for double barrel Joe time (the latter is joke, friends).
I've said - state bans are the real problem unless we get a moral panic from some nut that scares the GOP also.
The problem with a semi-auto rifle or magazine ban is it's unlikely to reduce the number of rifles already in the hands of millions of Americans. About the only real possibility of anything out of congress regarding a ban is the sale or transfer of SA rifles and magazines. That may actually happen with this adm and congress. I've seen this coming for awhile as I live in one of the most AG states in the US.
Those who already own the rifles and magazines that will be restricted, those will be buried with them. Or maybe you could just sell them to a Mexican cartel associate and get your original investment back with a small profit. Gun running will become a new industry in the US like liquor was during prohibition. It will be really hard to keep a lid on it. If the fed can't keep drugs from coming into the US, how are they going to keep SA rifles from going to Mexico?
I saw a black market for a lot of stuff in N. Africa, including firearms. You could get whatever you wanted, you just needed the connections.
Last edited by Borderland; 06-16-2021 at 08:29 PM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Having participated in many of these type discussions over the years, couple observations/thoughts.
1. spend more time ensuring such a ban doesn't happen. if we spent as much energy fighting a proposed ban as is expended on these theoretical discussions trying to find how to work around, be compliant etc with a ban that hasn't happened yet, we wouldn't have a ban to worry about.
2. spend some of that panic buying money of ammo and rifles that might "go away" on supporting those who are on the front lines of the fight to prevent a ban. then we might not have to worry about a ban.
3. Should a ban happen, since we are not living in a war zone, we are talking about protecting one's self from criminal activity, which is fighting and not combat. As such, you still live in a world where each bullet has to be justified. While having a semi auto is not about dumping a magazine at every threat, but about eliminating the need to split focus between threat and manipulating your firearm in order to take the next shot, simply having any repeating rifle that has proven to be reliable is sufficient.
This means bolt actions, lever actions and pump actions will all be sufficient. Keep them short, 16 to 20 inch barrels, mount low powered scopes or red dots and you will be fine for typical criminal activity. Ya, I know all about the In Range discussion...but they are talking about combat, not protection against criminals. Even if their points were valid for non combat applications, it would not matter as under a ban situation, the option for a semi auto wouldn't exist anyway.
given a choice, of course the right choice is a semi auto. but if that choice is taken away, then you go with what you can get and learn to use it.
Again, best use of energy/resources right now.... making sure the ban never happens then you don't have to worry about how to "work around it".
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