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Thread: Ban-Compliant Defensive Rifles in the 2020s

  1. #71
    Speaking of the internal-mag clip-fed semi auto ideas like the Mini M1 Garand in .300Blk/5.56/whatever, I was thinking about it and, while the designs are definitely different, isn't the SKS effectively the same concept? 10 rounds, fixed mag, charged by clips (but with the capability to top off easily or load singles), no pistol grip, and even in New Yorkistan they are legal if the bayonet is removed and the lug for the bayonet is ground off (from what I've been told by NYers). Even in the latest AWB proposals, it did not include SKSs that still had the fixed 10 round mag and traditional wood stock. And the ammo is cheap to boot, with domestic sources of 7.62x39 being viable although less cheap. In terms of performance, 7.62x39 is similar to a supersonic 125gr .300BLK. DocGKR has a handful of vetted loads that perform very well listed somewhere on this site I believe.

    I wonder how the reliability of a new-condition rearsenalled Russian SKS would be compared to, say, a Colt LE6920 or quality AK variant. Or in other words, how it would hold up to a weekend carbine class which tend to show what guns will poop the bed and what will work. I also wonder how it would compare to an M1 Garand in that regard.

  2. #72
    Hillbilly Elitist Malamute's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    Speaking of the internal-mag clip-fed semi auto ideas like the Mini M1 Garand in .300Blk/5.56/whatever, I was thinking about it and, while the designs are definitely different, isn't the SKS effectively the same concept? 10 rounds, fixed mag, charged by clips (but with the capability to top off easily or load singles), no pistol grip, and even in New Yorkistan they are legal if the bayonet is removed and the lug for the bayonet is ground off (from what I've been told by NYers). Even in the latest AWB proposals, it did not include SKSs that still had the fixed 10 round mag and traditional wood stock. And the ammo is cheap to boot, with domestic sources of 7.62x39 being viable although less cheap. In terms of performance, 7.62x39 is similar to a supersonic 125gr .300BLK. DocGKR has a handful of vetted loads that perform very well listed somewhere on this site I believe.

    I wonder how the reliability of a new-condition rearsenalled Russian SKS would be compared to, say, a Colt LE6920 or quality AK variant. Or in other words, how it would hold up to a weekend carbine class which tend to show what guns will poop the bed and what will work. I also wonder how it would compare to an M1 Garand in that regard.
    Then again, theres the mini-30. Easily scoped, which is a plus.

    I have no idea how well they run. i recall some discussion of the minis in the past, but dont recall how the mini 30s compared to the mini 14s.
    “Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the gray twilight that knows neither victory nor defeat.”
    ― Theodore Roosevelt

  3. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Malamute View Post
    Then again, theres the mini-30. Easily scoped, which is a plus.

    I have no idea how well they run. i recall some discussion of the minis in the past, but dont recall how the mini 30s compared to the mini 14s.
    My own personal experiences with the Mini 30 were not very good, and from what I understand I'm far from the only one. It's been a while since I've shot one, though. On the other hand I figure the SKS with its military pedigree and long track record of use in combat should maybe hold up well, but I don't know of any kind of involved, documented testing other than what might be in some Soviet archive somewhere, yet to be discovered.

  4. #74
    Just FWIW, I had a pair of Ruger American Ranches (300BO and 223) that take AR mags. They were a really handy, slick package relative to a K98 or Savage or whatever. The 3 lug bolt makes them fast. One of mine came from the factory slick as could be, and one took an evening of working the action to get slick. I could cycle the action about as fast as I could aim. I think the full diameter bolt might help make it cycle better than the Savages or Mausers. I got about 1.25 MOA from the 300BO and 1 MOA from the 223. The 223 was pretty finicky, i.e. I only got that accuracy from one specific loading.

    I just ran an LPVO or red dot, but Nodak Spud makes iron sights for them if that matters.

    In any event, they would be my choice if all semis were banned, over, say a Marlin.

    (I also had one of the Rugers that took Ruger's 5 shot mags ... didn't like that. the mags are expensive and didn't feed reliably)

  5. #75
    The bolt action that interests me the most for the proposed subject is the Tikka T3x Arctic, the commercial version of the C19 that the Canadian Rangers adopted to replace the Lee Enfield. It seems like a worthy successor to the old girl. 10 rounds, .308, robust, reliable, holds up to the harshest of conditions, has irons and a picatinny rail for an optic... But also well over $2k and I can't find them in stock anywhere, at least in .308.

  6. #76
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Maybe I won’t sell my FR-8 after all. Get a tricornio and off I go.
    Ken

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  7. #77
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwampDweller View Post
    The bolt action that interests me the most for the proposed subject is the Tikka T3x Arctic, the commercial version of the C19 that the Canadian Rangers adopted to replace the Lee Enfield. It seems like a worthy successor to the old girl. 10 rounds, .308, robust, reliable, holds up to the harshest of conditions, has irons and a picatinny rail for an optic... But also well over $2k and I can't find them in stock anywhere, at least in .308.
    Damn, that’s attractive. I can’t think of a better configured commercially available hard use bolt gun.

    I’ll be in my bunk.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  8. #78
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    Damn, that’s attractive. I can’t think of a better configured commercially available hard use bolt gun.

    I’ll be in my bunk.
    And you can even get AICS bottom metal.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  9. #79
    Site Supporter JodyH's Avatar
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    If I was stuck with just my Steyr Scout topped with a Aimpoint T2, I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about being undergunned.

    In fact my bedroom safe has my Benelli M4 in the #1 access position, H&K MR762 in #2, Steyr Scout is #3 and my FN/Geissele M4 comes in at the rear.
    Last edited by JodyH; 06-23-2021 at 07:30 AM.
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  10. #80
    Member JonInWA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JTMcC View Post
    We aren't in Her Magesty's service, being herded by salty NCO's who cut their teeth in the trenches of the Somme. So we can buy and carry all the Lee Enfield magazines we choose and change them willy nilly without fear of company disipline : )

    As nice as the 303 chargers are and they are very nice, there is utility in having multiple mags and changing them at times.
    The Canadian Rangers used several types of gear (kit?! to them) for that purpose from stand alone mag belts to LBE type setups.
    "Some of each" is my SMLE motto.
    I've heard several people say (type) "it's not made for frequent R&R, you'll wear things out", I've seen no abnormal rear on mags or mag catch after a lot of mag changes. The components are sturdy.
    In my research, I've discovered that in normal use the Lee Enfield magazine was loaded with only 5 rounds, not 10, which significantly reduced the possibility of magazine feed lip spread (althought I strongly suspect that the rifles used by the British Army and Commonwealth units in contact with North Koreans/Chinese in the Korean War and their human wave/mass attack strategy probably kept their Lee Enfields fully loaded up, at least when there was a likely possibility f significant contact). The issue is not so much one of magazine wear induced by magazine switching, but one of feed use spread if magazines were continuously kept fully loaded with 10 rounds. A secondary issue seems to have been concern over accellerated magazine spring wear with magazines fully loaded.

    Proper use of the 5 round charger clips for reloading was much faster than the manipulations necessary for switching the somewhat bulky Lee Enfield magazines, and it would be critical for the detached magazine to be safely and securly stowed. Lee Enfield magazines were probably not considered to be an expendible item in the way most detachable magazines for battle rifles are; I suspect that there were limits to their expeditious resupply.

    It is also, from an ergonomic, stowage and weight standpoint much easier to depend on multiple charger clips than multiple pre-loaded magazines.

    That's not to say that a Lee Enfield user couldn't go to a multiple magazine practice, but historically that wasn't the practice in use. As components of these historical rifles dwindle, unless you have a good number and/or source for reliable magaines, the charger clip might be a more prudent use practice. And, additionally, it's my understanding that each individual Lee Enfield magazine needed to be somewhat fitted to each individual rifle (or that at least there was likely a strong necessity for that to be done).

    Best, Jon
    Last edited by JonInWA; 06-23-2021 at 07:42 AM.

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