"60 Minutes" hit-piece on the AR-15

[Totem Polar]

Posting purely so y’all can read my signature line, below. Some of our docs are pretty smart.

[Guerrero]

I actually watched it. By 60 Min standards, it was fairly accurate. What specifically made it a “hit piece?”

The comparison to a Glock pistol (look how extra deadly!)

The lack of comparison to any other .223 rifle

Heck, the lack of comparison to *any* other rifle (how about grandpa's .30-06 deer rifle?)

[Sensei]

They clearly used an expanding bullet in the rifle and a ball FMJ in the 9mm for starters. Overhyping the "dangerous and deadly velocity" of the AR. It was clearly a hit piece.

I’m not so sure about that. Both the M195 and M855 will fragment just like that in a close-range (<50 meters), unobstructed gel shot. As for overhyping the dangerousness of the AR’s velocity, is there anyone on this forum who would bring a glock to a gunfight over an AR? Anyone?

I wouldn’t. In fact, I’d take an AR loaded with M195 over a glock with HST any day of the week…and twice on Sunday.

The comparison to a Glock pistol (look how extra deadly!)

The lack of comparison to any other .223 rifle

Heck, the lack of comparison to *any* other rifle (how about grandpa's .30-06 deer rifle?)

The topic of the segment was the weapon of choice for mass shooters. Although the FBI doesn’t compile data on the type of rifle used in murder statistics, I’m fairly confident that the 60 min producers are correct that the AR is the weapon of choice for mass shooters since Sandy Hook, and grandpa’s hunting rifle would not be pertinent to the conversation.

I get it. 60 Minutes is a liberal rag with an agenda. We can even argue that mass shootings are such an insignificant blip on the country’s problem radar that it doesn’t deserve a segment on a national news program, and such segments are only meant to further distort a non-issue (good luck with that). However, none of that makes the content of the segment inaccurate or a distortion. Moreover, it doesn’t answer the fundamental question of what went so fucking wrong with our country that most of us over the age of 40 have gradually escalated our personal arsenal everywhere we go, and none of us go to a mass gathering anymore without counting exits and people who look out of place? Seriously - I used to carry a Glock 19 to vacation; now I feel naked without a SBR equivalent. Is it all media distortion of non-events, or should we perhaps have a frank and honest discussion about how so few of our neighbors (and not just in Portland and Minneapolis) are living up to their obligations at being what the Founders considered “a well organized militia.”

[Trooper224]

I’m not so sure about that. Both the M195 and M855 will fragment just like that in a close-range (<50 meters), unobstructed gel shot. As for overhyping the dangerousness of the AR’s velocity, is there anyone on this forum who would bring a glock to a gunfight over an AR? Anyone?

I wouldn’t. In fact, I’d take an AR loaded with M195 over a glock with HST any day of the week…and twice on Sunday.



The topic of the segment was the weapon of choice for mass shooters. Although the FBI doesn’t compile data on the type of rifle used in murder statistics, I’m fairly confident that the 60 min producers are correct that the AR is the weapon of choice for mass shooters since Sandy Hook, and grandpa’s hunting rifle would not be pertinent to the conversation.

I get it. 60 Minutes is a liberal rag with an agenda. We can even argue that mass shootings are such an insignificant blip on the country’s problem radar that it doesn’t deserve a segment on a national news program, and such segments are only meant to further distort a non-issue (good luck with that). However, none of that makes the content of the segment inaccurate or a distortion. Moreover, it doesn’t answer the fundamental question of what went so fucking wrong with our country that most of us over the age of 40 have gradually escalated our personal arsenal everywhere we go, and none of us go to a mass gathering anymore without counting exits and people who look out of place? Seriously - I used to carry a Glock 19 to vacation; now I feel naked without a SBR equivalent. Is it all media distortion of non-events, or should we perhaps have a frank and honest discussion about how so few of our neighbors (and not just in Portland and Minneapolis) are living up to their obligations at being what the Founders considered “a well organized militia.”

I just spent the last two weeks traveling through Florida. From St. Augustine down the west coast to Key West, then up the east coast and the Everglades to the panhandle. In all those miles traveled, places seen, and hotels I carried a single stack pistol and two spare magazines. In all logic I could have ditched the spare mags, but they're more a habit than anything. I saw the famous Florida Man a few times, but avoided direct contact. In fact, the rich self-entitled assholes in Key West were more of an irritant. I never found any reason to even think of reaching for my pistol, much less feel the need for a rifle. I was fairly confident the hardware available would solve any problem I might run into. In reality, I didn't even run into a sunburn let alone any real issues and I was all over what's considered to be one of the craziest states in the Union. My wife and I did walk into a local bar in Key Largo and walked right back out due to the local "flavor" in evidence. Good choices breed good outcomes.

If someone wants to lug a long gun around, or an SBR in a backpack I guess you do you bro. But, I get the feeling the practice is becoming more of a political or fashion statement than an actual need. Yeah, there's a few places in the country where idiots of all stripes are running around with heavy hardware, but the majority of the country is getting on with life pretty much like usual. All without looking jocked up like DEVGRU. Those places can easily be avoided by most of us. If you're living somewhere like Wellington Kansas and you think lugging an AR15 around in your daily life is a serious need, you need to check your reality tank. Everybody thinks being a gunfighter's cool 'til the gunfight starts.

Every time I see mention of 60 Minutes I have the same reaction I have to something like Grey's Anatomy or Blue Bloods: someone still watches that?

[Sensei]

If someone wants to lug a long gun around, or an SBR in a backpack I guess you do you bro. But, I get the feeling the practice is becoming more of a political or fashion statement than an actual need. Yeah, there's a few places in the country where idiots of all stripes are running around with heavy hardware, but the majority of the country is getting on with life pretty much like usual. All without looking jocked up like DEVGRU. Those places can easily be avoided by most of us. If you're living somewhere like Wellington Kansas and you think lugging an AR15 around in your daily life is a serious need, you need to check your reality tank. Everybody thinks being a gunfighter's cool 'til the gunfight starts.

This is not AR15.com and nobody on this forum is looking jocked up like DEVGRU. Moreover, I’m not sure that I said anything about lugging a SBR in anyone’s daily life. My point was that the escalation in threads about trunk guns, light weight travel rifles, SBRs, pistol braces, etc. on this forum, a pistol forum, over the roughly 10 years that I’ve been here kinda speaks for itself.

[rcbusmc24]

We are all just buying the stuff the industry wants to sell us, same as any other hobby.... I fall for it too.

[Trooper224]

This is not AR15.com and nobody on this forum is looking jocked up like DEVGRU. Moreover, I’m not sure that I said anything about lugging a SBR in anyone’s daily life. My point was that the escalation in threads about trunk guns, light weight travel rifles, SBRs, pistol braces, etc. on this forum, a pistol forum, over the roughly 10 years that I’ve been here kinda speaks for itself.

I was speaking in a general sense, you weren't.

[Sensei]

Well, then generally speaking of course, I’m not sure that the best argument against a 60 Minutes gun control hit piece should involve a claim from 2nd Amendment enthusiasts that people who choose to carry rifles while traveling on vacation don’t really need an AR-15, and they are doing it just to look like the military. That sounds a little to much like Uncle Joe telling us to buy a shotgun. Yeah, I’ll stick with my line that society is fucked and that we’re a pubic hair’s length from Lord Humungus running the show.

On a more serious note for those who could not withstand the pain of watching 60 Minutes, the segment focused on three topics: 1) the AR-15 has become the weapon of choice for most mass shooters since Sandy Hook, 2) the AR-15 is more lethal than a handgun mainly due to the velocity of its .223/5.56 ammunition (capacity and speed were also mentioned), 3) it is a good thing that schools and EMS systems are adapting to better equip first responders and even school children at hemorrhage control. While much of this seems intuitive, that last point may actually be useful for reminding forum members that basic first aid training should begin in early childhood and include the rapid application of a tourniquet for massive hemorrhage. It reminded me that it’s time to refresh with my family. This is why I often choose to listen to those with whom I disagree - it is rare that I can’t find something useful.

[Shawn Dodson]

"The AR15's bullet is designed to tumble on impact."

No it isn't. ALL pointed bullets yaw when they travel through soft tissues because the bullet's center of gravity is located closer to the base than the tip. When the bullet penetrates flesh the bullet seeks to achieve a state of stability by yawing 180 degrees to travel base forward.

[Trooper224]

Well, then generally speaking of course, I’m not sure that the best argument against a 60 Minutes gun control hit piece should involve a claim from 2nd Amendment enthusiasts that people who choose to carry rifles while traveling on vacation don’t really need an AR-15, and they are doing it just to look like the military. That sounds a little to much like Uncle Joe telling us to buy a shotgun. Yeah, I’ll stick with my line that society is fucked and that we’re a pubic hair’s length from Lord Humungus running the show.

On a more serious note for those who could not withstand the pain of watching 60 Minutes, the segment focused on three topics: 1) the AR-15 has become the weapon of choice for most mass shooters since Sandy Hook, 2) the AR-15 is more lethal than a handgun mainly due to the velocity of its .223/5.56 ammunition (capacity and speed were also mentioned), 3) it is a good thing that schools and EMS systems are adapting to better equip first responders and even school children at hemorrhage control. While much of this seems intuitive, that last point may actually be useful for reminding forum members that basic first aid training should begin in early childhood and include the rapid application of a tourniquet for massive hemorrhage. It reminded me that it’s time to refresh with my family. This is why I often choose to listen to those with whom I disagree - it is rare that I can’t find something useful.

Well, again generally speaking of course, expecting 2nd Amendment enthusiasts to get in lock step on every single point sounds a lot like George Orwell, or just virtue signaling. Voicing an differing opinion on personal choice is a far stretch from a politician advocating legislation.