Where to get started? Any good FAQs for NFA items?

[mrozowjj]

I avoided doing any NFA stuff because I currently rent and I was always under the impression I had to tell the ATF if I moved well in advance. I recently was told I don't actually have to tell them at all (I'm still not sure if this is accurate) unless I leave my current state.

That has me thinking maybe it's time to get some SBRs and a few cans... maybe. I have a bunch of questions though and I'm wondering if there is a good FAQ I can go to that has the information and process explained/outlined so I don't have to ask like 100 questions here.

If not my big questions are:

Do I have to tell the ATF if I move?

Do I have to have an SBR engraved?

Do I have to submit finger prints and pictures for each one? What if I have a trust?

Can I bring an SBR across state lines? As in if I want to drive to a class at Thunder Range in Oregon and I want to use an SBR there how do I do that legally?

[dontshakepandas]

Do I have to tell the ATF if I move?

Only if it is out of state, but you CAN tell them if you want to be safe.

Do I have to have an SBR engraved?

Yes.

Do I have to submit finger prints and pictures for each one? What if I have a trust?

Yes. If you have a trust, you have to do it each time and so does every responsible person on your trust.

Can I bring an SBR across state lines? As in if I want to drive to a class at Thunder Range in Oregon and I want to use an SBR there how do I do that legally?

You can as long as the item is legal in that state and you fill out ATF Form 5320.20. You can use a date range of up to a year, so if you have a place that you visit often you can just fill it out once per year for a year at a time.

[HeavyDuty]

Is there anyplace worthwhile that discusses the pros and cons of trusts vs individual? My CLEO isn’t an issue. Can a trust be domiciled somewhere else, like a neighboring town?

[TR675]

You should talk to a lawyer knowledgeable in NFA issues. There’s plenty out there and more of them all the time.


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[David S.]

Is there anyplace worthwhile that discusses the pros and cons of trusts vs individual? My CLEO isn’t an issue. Can a trust be domiciled somewhere else, like a neighboring town?

https://texasguntrust.com/

[CleverNickname]

Do I have to have an SBR engraved?

dontshakepandas is correct-ish, but a better answer would be "Any NFA firearm made must be engraved with the maker's information." Typically, when an unlicensed entity wants an SBR, they get an approved form 1 for an existing title I firearm that they own, and then make it into an SBR by either adding a stock if it's a pistol, or cutting the barrel/attaching a shorter barrel if it's a title I rifle. However, there's no reason that an unlicensed entity couldn't have an SBR transferred to them. In that case, whatever entity made the SBR would engrave the SBR with its information when it's made. Only the maker is required to engrave their information, not any subsequent transferees. Similarly, if an unlicensed entity wanted to build their own silencer, then they would have to get an approved form 1 and engrave the silencer tube, before making the tube into a silencer.

[mrozowjj]

You should talk to a lawyer knowledgeable in NFA issues. There’s plenty out there and more of them all the time.


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are there online ones or should I be looking for one locally?

I assume some of these websites selling NFA trusts have NFA lawyers on staff to discuss things with?

[alamo5000]

I avoided doing any NFA stuff because I currently rent and I was always under the impression I had to tell the ATF if I moved well in advance. I recently was told I don't actually have to tell them at all (I'm still not sure if this is accurate) unless I leave my current state.

That has me thinking maybe it's time to get some SBRs and a few cans... maybe. I have a bunch of questions though and I'm wondering if there is a good FAQ I can go to that has the information and process explained/outlined so I don't have to ask like 100 questions here.

If not my big questions are:

Do I have to tell the ATF if I move?

Do I have to have an SBR engraved?

Do I have to submit finger prints and pictures for each one? What if I have a trust?

Can I bring an SBR across state lines? As in if I want to drive to a class at Thunder Range in Oregon and I want to use an SBR there how do I do that legally?

Others have answered long before I got here.

If you move you don't have to tell anyone. The only possible caveat to that is if you move to a potentially not gun friendly state. I've never been down that road so I don't know. But if you just move to an apartment down the street the answer is no.

Any SBR has to be engraved. What gets engraved depends on how you file your ATF form 4 paperwork. If it's you as an individual it will be your name etc. If it's a Trust it will be the Trust name and city and state.

Any time (now) that you file a form 4 for anything it requires finger prints and photos. If it's on a trust then any person on that trust will have to submit pictures and fingerprints as well. Places like Silencer Shop save your prints and they keep your picture on file, but you do have to update it once every 12 months. Once you are in their system you don't even notice. With an SBR it's a bit more involved because it's 'the old way' meaning pretty much manual. That said you can do your own finger prints on the kitchen table if you like. If you get a trust with like 14 people on it though it gets way too cumbersome.

To take a SBR across state lines you need to fill out a form in advance and send it to the ATF. It's a real pain in the ass so most people avoid it all together. This is definitely something that makes zero sense but none the less is a big thing if you travel a lot.

[alamo5000]

Is there anyplace worthwhile that discusses the pros and cons of trusts vs individual? My CLEO isn’t an issue. Can a trust be domiciled somewhere else, like a neighboring town?

A CLEO is a non factor. The whole needing a CLEO signature is gone. It's been gone for several years now. Since 41F came into existence.

The hardest part of setting up a trust is getting it set up. Silencer Shop and others, in my case I used Coyote Rifleworks, they offer pre-setup trusts that you can buy for like $100 bucks. Don't get too wrapped around the axle about the specifics. That is what lawyers are for. Just know once you get the NFA items you can legally use them however and whenever you want.

For me there is really no benefit at all to going individual. It's you, you, and you. That's the only person that can do anything.

With a Trust though (at least in Texas) let's say you get 10 suppressors and 3 SBRs in there... but then 5 years from now you get a high paying job in Germany. You can add a person to the trust and they can have possession of those items while you are working overseas. This may be somewhat different in other states, but in Texas you can do that.

A Trust offers the most flexibility is the basic concept here. There is no reason not to have a Trust in my view, with the caveat that you don't have more than 2 or 3 people on there. Four max. Beyond that it becomes like herding cats anytime you want to buy something.

[alamo5000]

Is there anyplace worthwhile that discusses the pros and cons of trusts vs individual? My CLEO isn’t an issue. Can a trust be domiciled somewhere else, like a neighboring town?

The answer about the domicile thing is going to be 1000% dependent on the state laws where you reside.

In Texas there is zero requirement to file trust documents anywhere. Not at the courthouse, not anywhere. I got my trust and have a safe in a very safe location that I keep the documents in (along with my original tax stamps).

No one else has a copy of my trust but me. So in Texas your trust doesn't have to be 'domiciled' anywhere. The fact that you have it and it's legally notarized makes it legal (here in Texas).

In other states they have many more rules about Trusts. Many require you to file trust documents with the county/state/municipality etc. On those I have no idea what the answer is. That would be specific to you if you live in those areas. Those turnkey trust people though should know what works and what doesn't in your state. They either are lawyers or hire lawyers in those specific states to address those issues before they ever come up.

In other words if I get a turnkey trust and I live in Texas it will look a lot different than if someone went to the same company and bought one but they live in Utah or Kentucky or wherever.