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Thread: Idle question, PX4 vs. 92 trigger reach in double-action.

  1. #1

    Idle question, PX4 vs. 92 trigger reach in double-action.

    How similar is the trigger reach and pull between the PX4 and 92 series?
    For background, I have found that the 92 for me has the DA trigger perfectly setup for me, in its stock form, for actual live shooting.
    To the point that I do not have any shift in point of impact when going from DA to SA, like I have experienced in other platforms( CZ derivatives mostly).

    But I have not handled or shot a PX4, and I am curious how similar they are to each other in that respect.

  2. #2
    Member Zincwarrior's Avatar
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    Without testing anything, having both I would opine that the Px4 has a shorter and easier pull. I have real difficulties with the DA pull on my 92, but could DA the wife's storm all day long.

  3. #3
    I measured the distance from the center of where my finger pad contracts the trigger to the rear of the grip directly behind that point:

    92 ltt: 2.881"
    px4 full size: 2.986"
    Also for comparison, in half cock since that is how they are carried:
    P09 med backstrap: 3.083"
    P01 omega: 3.088"

    YMMV may vary based on finger placement etc.

    I was surprised by how close all those numbers are. I think that trigger reach as a number is probably not very useful, except maybe as a maximum number for a given hand size. I've experienced the same kind of thing you are talking about, and found that thicker grips tends to mitigate the issue. For example, putting thicc LOK grips on my SP01 greatly improved my DA accuracy, and SA accuracy at speed as well. I feel this is because the thicker grips give the trigger finger less "wiggle room" and therefore more consistency. The stock B92 has very thick grips which may be the thing that helps your shooting more than the trigger reach itself. I find the LTT "thin" grips to be pretty great, they are still .1-.2" thicker than the grips on my P09 for example.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by TicTacticalTimmy View Post
    I measured the distance from the center of where my finger pad contracts the trigger to the rear of the grip directly behind that point:

    92 ltt: 2.881"
    px4 full size: 2.986"
    Also for comparison, in half cock since that is how they are carried:
    P09 med backstrap: 3.083"
    P01 omega: 3.088"

    YMMV may vary based on finger placement etc.

    I was surprised by how close all those numbers are. I think that trigger reach as a number is probably not very useful, except maybe as a maximum number for a given hand size. I've experienced the same kind of thing you are talking about, and found that thicker grips tends to mitigate the issue. For example, putting thicc LOK grips on my SP01 greatly improved my DA accuracy, and SA accuracy at speed as well. I feel this is because the thicker grips give the trigger finger less "wiggle room" and therefore more consistency. The stock B92 has very thick grips which may be the thing that helps your shooting more than the trigger reach itself. I find the LTT "thin" grips to be pretty great, they are still .1-.2" thicker than the grips on my P09 for example.
    That seems a reasonable theory. It fits me in my limited shooting time at least. My problems with the CZs extend beyond just the DA reach, but it was a major factor in cooling my interest in them.

  5. #5

    Reach or leverage

    Quote Originally Posted by MandoWookie View Post
    How similar is the trigger reach and pull between the PX4 and 92 series?
    For background, I have found that the 92 for me has the DA trigger perfectly setup for me, in its stock form, for actual live shooting.
    To the point that I do not have any shift in point of impact when going from DA to SA, like I have experienced in other platforms( CZ derivatives mostly).

    But I have not handled or shot a PX4, and I am curious how similar they are to each other in that respect.
    My observations and those of my shooting companions are in favor of the PX4 Storm for a trigger reach that gives a combination of leverage and dexterity to pull to the end without grip drift.

    The PX4 has 3 different backstrap choices, which can help customize. My experience with the Vertec is less than with the standard sized 92 grip.

    With the small backstrap on a full size PX4 my trigger reach is too much (over-reach) and I use the medium. My shooting partner uses the large for his bigger hands. It is still not as large as the model 92.
    My PX4 .45s have the same size grip (slightly different shape) with small backstraps as the full size with a large one. So it can be made much bigger yet.

    Case in point: Last month we were joined by a friend that had bought our old model 92 FS. My wife shoots all of our PX4s and my .45 regularly. She could not reach with enough leverage with the model 92 to finish the DA pull lefty, righty... just barely. She shoots a lot and lot of DA. She reported that she could not reach enough to have leverage.

    Though hand size, finger to palm length proportions and other factors may vary... we have found the PX4 to give better trigger reach. This was one of the many reasons we went from the model 92 and 96 to the PX4 many years ago.

  6. #6

    conditioning

    There is another factor that I have observed to affect people's choices or preferences about trigger reach which comes from what their hands do or have done in life or work. This may sound out-there, but I study body mechanics and movement as a part of my profession.

    If a person does a lot of work, living or training with a mostly closed fist he finds better leverage and comfortable dexterity in a shorter trigger reach where the hand is more closed at trigger break.

    Those that have life, work and other experiences where the hand is more open during compression are more comfortable and coordinated at longer trigger pull lengths.

    I also find that some will use standard barbell or bumbbell size better and some like the olympic bars, which are thicker to grab (for example).

    So, the conditioning of your hands' experience can make for a different feel.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by PX4 Storm Tracker View Post
    There is another factor that I have observed to affect people's choices or preferences about trigger reach which comes from what their hands do or have done in life or work. This may sound out-there, but I study body mechanics and movement as a part of my profession.

    If a person does a lot of work, living or training with a mostly closed fist he finds better leverage and comfortable dexterity in a shorter trigger reach where the hand is more closed at trigger break.

    Those that have life, work and other experiences where the hand is more open during compression are more comfortable and coordinated at longer trigger pull lengths.

    I also find that some will use standard barbell or bumbbell size better and some like the olympic bars, which are thicker to grab (for example).

    So, the conditioning of your hands' experience can make for a different feel.
    I dont know what combination of factors lead to me shooting better with the 92. I am not necessarily looking for the shortest trigger reach, just whether the PX4 has(or can be set up to have) roughly similar dynamic to the 92. The CZs I have shot and handled I had no problem reaching the trigger in DA, but whatever combo of grip shape and my hands made consistent manipulation difficult. The pivot point on the CZ style safety being so far forward made it difficult to effectively use it with my orangutan thumbs.
    By comparison I can reach all the controls easily on the 92, and I assume the same would hold for the PX4.

  8. #8

    Same difference

    Quote Originally Posted by MandoWookie View Post
    I dont know what combination of factors lead to me shooting better with the 92. I am not necessarily looking for the shortest trigger reach, just whether the PX4 has(or can be set up to have) roughly similar dynamic to the 92. The CZs I have shot and handled I had no problem reaching the trigger in DA, but whatever combo of grip shape and my hands made consistent manipulation difficult. The pivot point on the CZ style safety being so far forward made it difficult to effectively use it with my orangutan thumbs.
    By comparison I can reach all the controls easily on the 92, and I assume the same would hold for the PX4.
    In my opinion and my experience the manual of arms, reaching and finding of controls, mag release, slide catch, decocker lever or hammer spur are very similar in the model 92 and the PX4.
    The grip might feel different in your hands or the longer barrel give a different center of mass, but using the one and the other would be natural back and forth IMHO.

  9. #9
    The #s are interesting for sure especially when provided by one person measuring several guns. It is real hard to decide where to measure the DA pull length because the DA trigger is at such a high angle at rest. Unfortunately #s are only an indication of reach since, as mentioned above, grip panels, backstraps, etc also have an effect. 8yrs ago when we moved to a state where we could carry legally, wife and I immediately bought carry guns. Hers is a G19 and mine is M&Pcompact. Neither of us like the G19 much but we shoot it fine. I got a PX4 compact thinking maybe she would replace the G19 w/ it. But she always pulled shots to the right. Tried all the backstraps and no fix. The last range trip to try one more combination she still shot the PX4c to the right. Immediately picked up her EII 92 and shot well as usual. Pulled out her G19 and shot well also. I am convinced there is a lot more to hands fitting guns, and how the gun moves in ones hand when the shot fires, than can be determined by measuring.

  10. #10
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    The PX4 always felt lighter and a wee bit shorter in length as stock 92.

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