I guess I’ll be the dissenting voice here… I own a chest rig and battle belt, but in all honesty, the past few rifle classes I’ve attended, I’ve carried my spare mag in my back pocket and perhaps a second in a cargo pocket. Works fine for my purposes and reality. Notably, I know of a few retired BTDT instructors that do the same since they’re not rocking a plate carrier anymore.
I've posted this before in reply to another thread but feel it may add some value here as well....
This is my lane.... As an Infantry Guy, who also was regularly involved with kit testing for MARCORSYSCOM and having an obsessive need to try to find the most comfortable way to carry everything... I have multiple bins of tactical shit, from Crye JPC's, Mayflower/Velocity systems test gear, old Eagle industries bomb proof stuff, issue armor, full on infantry belt kit's, rucks, assault packs, day packs, chest rigs- both full on combat loads and minimalist, low pro/vis stuff, belt mounted kit, both on assaulter/inner/outer belts and regular pants belts, along with some other more specialized carry methods. I've played with a lot of it and have slowly came to some opinions on much it. As Pat Rogers used to say "Mission drives the gear train", and it seems like you have pretty much defined your mission as localized home defense, possible egress (I don't care for the term bail out bag, unless you are a Cop or contractor under fire, ditching your ride in order to run the Mogadishu Mile...) and most likely carbine class use.
Rob S has a good point, recently being anti tactical seems to be the "new tactical thing”. But this can become problematic very quickly in a class setting. I typically conduct all of my reloads from a belt mounted pouch, and back fill that pouch with mags carried elsewhere on my body as I get a chance to do so. I cannot come up with a situation other that in a square range class where I would be standing in the open, not moving and burn through multiple magazines of ammo.... so, I'll get a chance to back fill that primary pouch. As to what pouch for that location.... depends, I like the Esstac Kywi pouches belt mounted for a lot of stuff, the pistol ones will hold almost any mag, the rifle ones only really work for AR's though.... I also have a few HSGI Tacos mounted on moduloaders from RCS, you don't need to buy those anymore though as HSGI makes a belt mounted version.... These are great for AK's, Steyr AUG's and other non-standard stuff if you have it.... I have kydex from multiple makers, most work pretty good and will serve you fine, I also regularly use the bladetech carriers for rifle mags, especially as quick add on's to the belt. One or two of any of the above-mentioned pouches will honestly probably cover anything you really need. More than that though starts to get unwieldy on the belt. I can conceal (from casual glance) the two pistol mags, rifle mag, TQ Holder and Holster on a belt with a cover garment pretty easy, moving in and out of the car or truck, or conducting daily activities is not hindered too much.... More than that though becomes problematic.
This is where several specialized load carriage devices can become useful. Accept that your primary task, even during unrest, is not to actually fight with a long gun, it is to do a myriad of other tasks while remaining capable of responding with appropriate force if so required. Thus, anything that you are carrying that inhibits the primary tasks you are attempting to conduct will not be at hand when you actually need it.... You will wear all that kit religiously for 24 hours... by the end of the week you will be doing the back pocket mag carry.... So have that single mag or two on your pants belt, that way you have it.
Make the rig that you wear to carry extra load easy to carry and put on, I personally like the First Spear Modular Fight Strap, it’s basically a modernized bandoleer that you can attach pouches to. Mine has pouches from HSGI on it, Three rifle / pistol Tacos, BOK, TQ carrier and a old eagle single pistol mag pouch with a leather-man tool in it. Total load, Leatherman, three rifle mags, two pistol mags, spare surefire handheld, BOK and TQ, It has a waist strap to hold it to your body and a single shoulder strap. FAST... the nice thing about this is you can rig it to hang like a chest rig if you want or have it hang at your weak side, and the waist strap will hold it in place.
Another non standard option might be the contractor bag, just be careful as you can rapidly overload these, you can get them in not as tactical colors though and then it just looks like a small diaper bag or man purse.... If you chose one of these utilize the waist strap, otherwise it will flop everywhere...
If going for the standard style chest rig, the fastest ones on open in the front and go on like a vest. Limit the load to 3 or 4 rifle mags, maybe a spare pistol mag and first aid stuff. I also like using a waist pack as a IFAK as that way I can keep that stuff with me when I take off the rest of my gear. The blue force gear rig is a good option for a basic stitched down rig that can accept a pouch or two being added to it. SKD offers a modernized version of the old Eagle Paul Howe/ CSAT chest rig that is good to go as long as you don't overload it. ATS offers a three-mag chest rig as well, that has two built in side pockets that can serve as a BOK and small spares pouch as well. The Haley rigs and such are good quality kit but spendy. If you are never going to buy armor and need the placard capability that they offer I would not spend the money. on one of them.
If you ever contemplate buying armor, then as a civilian I would recommend purchasing a carrier that integrates placard systems such as offered by Velocity Systems/ Mayflower et al... and get the chest rig/ placard now to match, this way everything remains the same, all you are doing is adding armor. There is something to be said for the idea that if the rifle comes out perhaps armor should as well. However, it is a pretty big investment for a small chance need.... and it goes all the way back around to the argument that if during unrest that If I saw you running through my neighborhood fully kitted up then you will most likely be considered at first a threat until I identify otherwise, I'm sure others would be running through the same evaluation criteria as well....
After saying all that I think for your use a few belt pouches you will actually take with you in your range bag and use and a simple bandoleer or chest rig to back fill those pouches will be the most useful, with a bandoleer or go bag you could even justify them as mag carriers to the range to get some more practical use out of them...
"So strong is this propensity of mankind, to fall into mutual animosities, that where no substantial occasion presents itself, the most frivolous and fanciful distinctions have been sufficient to kindle their unfriendly passions, and excite their most violent conflicts." - James Madison, Federalist No 10
I’ll second taking an Appleseed class before something more high speed.
Two options for AR mags: Safariland makes an AR mag pouch with a Tek lok type belt attachment- they are cheap, easy on/off and work on a “normal” belt. @JM Campbell used a Unity Tactical clutch (belly band) in a recent Green Ops carbine class and it worked well enough.
Knee pads (Knee Caps being the Best.
A chair
A cooler
Sunscreen in roll on / stick form (usually marketed for kids) much less messy to put on and seems to stay on better when it’s hot
First step is to figure out the course you’re attending, and the ammo/magazine requirements.
In most cases, having at least two belt-mounted rifle magazine ouches, one pistol mag pouch, and a holster will be the minimum requirement.
Resist the urge to prove how (un?) cool you are and just show up in flip flops and plan to load out of your pocket out of some misguided “train as you’ll fight” nonsense. It’s your first class. You’re not there to fight. You’re there to (a) not shoot anyone else (b) not shoot yourself (c) learn. The less obtrusive your (lack of) gear is, the better chance you have at all three.
For belt pouches, get something that doesn’t dictate magazine orientation. Your may find that halfway through the first day “bullets forward” works better for you than “bullets rear”. Unlike pistol mag pull he’s, where “bullets forward” is THE answer, there is no right way with a rifle.
Ready Tactical AR mag pouches have long, long, long, been my go-to. Easy enough to to take on/off but I’ve never had one come off when I didn’t want it to. Allows for either magazine orientation. Relatively inexpensive. I’m unaware, all these years later, of a less expensive, better, option.
https://skdtac.com/ready-tactical-ar...eed-mag-pouch/
They do pistol pouches too, of which I am also a fan, particularly for classes. When you don’t know what you don’t know, flexibility is key. If you show up with some locked-down competition belt or whatever, you’re going to play hell making changes. With clip-on kydex you just move your pouches around as you go and learn.
https://skdtac.com/ready-tactical-pistol-mag-pouch/
Finally, if the course description requires more than three loaded mags on the line (it’s ok to keep your first mag in a back pocket, provided you can reach it easily with your weak hand to make that initial load without causing (a) or (b) above), don’t be scared to use a chest rig. “Train as fight, I won’t have a chest rig in my GUNFIGHT, blah blah blah blah”. See a-c above. Plus, even if you are learning gunfighting... you’re not training to reload from the chest! You reload from the belt, from either of your two belt-mounted pouches, and at then back-feed the belt pouch from the chest rig. So simple, even a cave man could understand it.
And, even if you were reloading from the chest rig, it doesn’t matter where your reload comes from! You think you’re going to have some situation wherein you retrieve a carbine, load it, engage in your gunfight, and 28 rounds isn’t getting it done? If that’s true, I’d suggest finding a new place to live. Put that course fee and ammo budget towards a downpayment or a rent deposit and GTFO.
Some of the flip-flop, back-pocket, train-as-fight, Uber-hipster crowd will tell you that even a belt pouch isn’t “real” enough. If that’s you, and you think it’s true, get a redimag. Learn to use it. Just not at your first class.
https://www.brownells.com/magazines/...prod71723.aspx
In fact, I’d suggest that if your first class has a heavy ammo-on-body requirement, it’s probably the wrong class.
But if you do find a need or use for a chest rig, I helped design this one to be as minimalistic as possible. Ask for the un-padded h-harness. And no front belt tie-downs. I don’t make any money off this, I just like the thing I designed, btw.
https://store.usgruntgear.com/m1rarelitrma1.html
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I picked up a couple kydex belt mounted AR mag pouches from JMCK for my last class and as usual was very pleased with their quality and functionality.
Course description and AARs to identify what it's all about.
Beyond the normal stuff that you'd take to a handgun class.
I used borrowed mag pouches on an old school leather gun belt. In the pocket kinda sucks when you're changing positions (prone, kneeling, seated, etc) a lot. I suspect as non-LE/MIL, if you need a chest rig, you're beyond the "first carbine class" stage, especially given many instructors are limiting round count due to the current ammo situation. I attended my first carbine earlier this year with Sentinel Concepts. Steve required the ability to carry two, maybe three, loaded mags to the line. I pre loaded ten mags, but only brought the two or three to the line. That buffer allowed me to selectively participate in, or listen to, off-line discussions.
Shooters mat or tarp. We got a ton of rain the night before the above class. A tarp or shooters mat would have been nice for the planned prone stages (zeroing, etc).
Double plugs. You might end up next to the guy with a SBR and a muzzle break.
Cat Crap the lenses, including eye pro.
IFAK and boo boo kit.
David S.
https://www.jmcustomkydex.com/p/Q-AR-15-Mag-Pouch.htmlOriginally Posted by rd62
I generally like their products as well. My comments below are about that *style* of pouch, not that particular product, having not owned one of those pouches. The below are just counter-points as food for thought.
- Designs like this one, with the two screws on the side, take up more room on a belt than the Ready-Tactical-style. Maybe that doesn't matter (and as my waistline grows, it matters less to me I suppose) but if you're at all thin, getting them closer together is better, and the fact that they are arrayed around a curve (your waist) means there is ample room for a grip on the mag even with them butted up together.
- I like Tek-Lok. I particularly like it when it's installed the JM way with the opening towards the top as that makes it more accessible. And it's more secure, I'd imagine, than a kydex clip. And less prone to breakage. But it's also harder to remove/move on the belt, which for a newbie is pretty critical IMO. Of course, that also means that the kydex-clip models like the Ready Tactical can also shift even when not wanted, so it's no free lunch for sure.
- I like a more open bottom, or some sort of way for debris, loose rounds, etc. to fall out without me having to (a) do a handstand or (b) remove the pouch. That open slot on the front of the Ready Tactical really allows for just about any obstruction to remove itself.
pic for reference
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Since I did suggest a chest rig, and said rig *is* covered in MOLLE, one other thing...
Don't add anything to it. At least not your first outing. And particularly if you're new to ARs anyway. There's literally nothing you'll "need" on the line that isn't a few feet or yards away. Later on, you may want to add some "nice to have" items but since it's just training gear anyway, try to keep that in mind.
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You all are super helpful. Thank you. I also loved the Appleseed idea. I'm going to see what's close to me in that regard. I'm a huge JM Custom fan, so even though those are a bit more than the Blade-tech and a bit bulkier than the Ready Tactical, I think I'll grab a few of those from him to start. Knee pads and other class items were also helpful. Thank you all again!
I do agree that non-tactical can be the hipster tactical. I don't have anything against tactical. I'm ambivalent or maybe even apathetic about tactical gear. I also agree as a "newbie" that I'm more concerned about safety and eliminating barriers to learning initially, but I also hate to buy stuff that I'll never use.
Feeling a little gay for you after that post.
Pretty much my thoughts.
Keep two pistol/one rifle mag on your belt, and a lightweight 3-4 mag chest rig simply as a convenient way to carry ammunition on your person to feed your mag pouch from or to conduct admin and tac-reloads (I don't like mags bouncing around in pockets, though it'll work for most classes). I prefer to layer my medical gear and will always have something on first line gear, such as an ankle IFAK + TQ on belt, in addition to full IFAK on my chest rig or a SoTech Viper riding small of back on my battle belt (the latter depending on if I'm overt or low-profile). In a class setting with an instructor's CLS-sized med kit likely nearby, I think it's reasonable to just wear a TQ on your belt though I personally err on the side of carrying more medical gear as I can guarantee 1) What's in the kit and 2) What condition is it in, whereas I can't do that with someone else's kit.
Instead of a chest rig, you could also use a 3 mag bandolier. I'd encourage working from both on the range, as they each have their own applicability.
If this setup doesn't meet the needs for a carbine class you're looking at, then that's probably a clue that it's a carbine class you shouldn't spend money on.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
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