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Thread: 3" Colt d-frame joy

  1. #11
    Site Supporter HeavyDuty's Avatar
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    This just makes me want something that (to my knowledge, anyways) was never made: a 3” Diamondback.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  2. #12
    Site Supporter entropy's Avatar
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    Out of a desire of edumication on the subject, and without having one of you kind gents take too much of your time to answer...

    This forum (re) lit my passion for revolvers many years back. I have more or less put effort into the S&W and Rugers. Nothing on Colts. I always (for whatever the reason) viewed the Colts as more “delicate” and “prone to issues”. Reading a fair amount about them getting out of time and such has probably anchored that opinion. This post has me scratching my head a bit and looking at older Colts that are for sale at (compared to S&W) reasonable prices. They do have a certain sexiness about them. Even here though, the discussion on Colts is nothing compared to Rugers or Smiths.

    So...with that said, are they that much of a trap for neophytes? Are they any more/less durable or “unsuitable” to pick up used and expect “S&W like durability”? Would a 1940s or 1950s era Colt be any more concern than a similar era Smith?

    I know this is a lot to ask on a follow-on post, so feel free to maybe just nudge me in a direction to self-educate.

    Thank you.
    Working diligently to enlarge my group size.

  3. #13
    Wood burnin' Curmudgeon CSW's Avatar
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    I'm certainly a neophyte in the Colt department, only owning a Trooper MKIII and now the official police 22 long rifle.
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    This official police revolver is just 'graceful' in appearance and function.
    Built in 1930, it has one of smoothest triggers I've felt.

    For Colt aficionados, which frame is the official considered?
    "... And miles to go before I sleep".

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by HeavyDuty View Post
    This just makes me want something that (to my knowledge, anyways) was never made: a 3” Diamondback.
    That idea has me drooling. Hopefully, Colt will introduce a new .38 (identical in weight and dimension to the original) and .357 Diamondback (on a Magnum Carry/new King Cobra frame), with the original D frame grip shape and trigger guard at some point. That would have far more appeal than the King Cobra Target.

    A 3" Diamondback would sell very well.

  5. #15
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    3-inch Official Police

    Sometimes you want something bad enough you go have it built.
    I like 3-inch barrels and I wanted a sturdy, +P capable, six-shot .38 Special, so I had Sandy Garrett of NoVA Gun Works rebuild this old cop gun for me.

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  6. #16
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    @Outpost75 - Just FYI, there seems to be only about a 20-25 fps loss in velocity when going from a 4" to a 3". Six rounds of R-P 158-grain LSWC-HP clocked 855 fps (SD of 4) from my 3" M10-7. I only have just over a box of it left so I wasn't going to get into a higher round count.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    @Outpost75 - Just FYI, there seems to be only about a 20-25 fps loss in velocity when going from a 4" to a 3". Six rounds of R-P 158-grain LSWC-HP clocked 855 fps (SD of 4) from my 3" M10-7. I only have just over a box of it left so I wasn't going to get into a higher round count.
    Cylinder gap is as important as barrel length. In .38 Special the normally expected Delta-V is a 10 fps loss or gain for each 0.001" change in cylinder gap from Mean Assembly Tolerance. A 2-inch gun at minimum tolerance of pass 0.002/hold 0.003 may actually give higher velocity with some ammos than a 4-inch gun at Customer Service Max. of 0.008 pass / 0.009 hold.

    Some velocity data from the 3" OP above, having cylinder gap 0.004 pass/0.005 hold:

    Rem-UMC 158 LRN "Police Service" (WW2-era) 772 fps, 19 Sd

    WRA Super Match 148-grain wadcutter (1950s) 695 fps, 9 Sd

    Winchester X38SPD 158 LHP (1990) 862 fps, 14 Sd

    WCC86 110-grain +P+ JHP Q4070 1064 fps, 21 Sd

    Winchester 125-grain JHP +P 915 fps, 12 Sd

    RA66 130-grain Ball M41 787 fps, 8 Sd

    Saeco #348 146 DEWC 3.5 Bullseye 824 fps, 7 Sd

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    Cylinder gap is as important as barrel length. In .38 Special the normally expected Delta-V is a 10 fps loss or gain for each 0.001" change in cylinder gap from Mean Assembly Tolerance. A 2-inch gun at minimum tolerance of pass 0.002/hold 0.003 may actually give higher velocity with some ammos than a 4-inch gun at Customer Service Max. of 0.008 pass / 0.009 hold.

    Some velocity data from the 3" OP above, having cylinder gap 0.004 pass/0.005 hold:

    Rem-UMC 158 LRN "Police Service" (WW2-era) 772 fps, 19 Sd

    WRA Super Match 148-grain wadcutter (1950s) 695 fps, 9 Sd

    Winchester X38SPD 158 LHP (1990) 862 fps, 14 Sd

    WCC86 110-grain +P+ JHP Q4070 1064 fps, 21 Sd

    Winchester 125-grain JHP +P 915 fps, 12 Sd

    RA66 130-grain Ball M41 787 fps, 8 Sd

    Saeco #348 146 DEWC 3.5 Bullseye 824 fps, 7 Sd
    That's great info! Good to see that Bullseye load too, I might need to replicate it with some 700-X I have.

  9. #19
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    .32 S&W Long and .32 Colt New Police Velocity vs. Cylinder gap

    .32 S&W Long Tests 5 April 2021

    Ammunition description_______Colt DS 3”______Colt Pol.Pos. 4”___Colt Cobra 3”_____Colt Courier 3”
    Cylinder Gap____________pass 0.004/hold .005___.010/.011_______.005/0.006_______0.010/0.011

    WRA .32 NP Balloon Hd 1940s___738, 13 Sd_______680, 21 Sd_______734, 10 Sd_______723, 15 Sd

    Western .32 SWL 98 Lubaloy____709, 14 Sd_______639. 11 Sd_______693, 14 Sd_______655, 13 Sd

    New production W-W 98 LRN____715, 20 Sd______not fired_________713, 14 Sd______696, 13 Sd

    PMC 98 LRN_1990____________737, 11 Sd_______675, 21 Sd_______745, 11 Sd______699, 29 Sd

    New Fiocchi 98 HBWC__________620, 12 Sd_______not fired________624, 11 Sd______613, 9 Sd

    Saeco #325, 2.5 grs. Bullseye____836, 10 Sd______829, 11 Sd_______840, 12 Sd______825, 11 Sd

    Saeco #325, 7 grs. Aliant #2400__1021, 31 Sd_____1005, 14 Sd______+P handload not fired in alloy frames

    Hdy 85-gr. XTP 3.1 grs. 452AA____965, 8 Sd_______not fired_________+P handload not fired in alloy frames

    Accurate 31-109H, 2.5 grs. BE____871, 11 Sd______822, 12 Sd_______844, 6 Sd______801, 19 Sd max. for light alloy frames

    Acc. 31-109H 3.0 grs. Bullseye___880, 10 Sd_______877, 5 Sd_______+P handload not fired in alloy frames

    Acc. 31-109H 8.4 IMR4227______873, 13 Sd_______831, 23 Sd______+P handload not fired in alloy frames

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by revchuck38 View Post
    That's great info! Good to see that Bullseye load too, I might need to replicate it with some 700-X I have.
    Red Dot, Promo, 452AA or WST will also be close to the same performance.

    As FYI 3 grains of Bullseye with the 116-grain Lyman #311008 at .312" diameter in Remington .32 S&W Long brass with Winchester small pistol primer at 1.275" OAL tests 20,300 psi firing in Larry Gibson's .32 H&R Magnum Contender via the Oehler M43 Personal Ballistic Test Module.

    8.5 grains of IMR4227 measured similarly firing the 100-grain Hornady XTP bullet tested at 20,200 psi.

    The limiting factor affecting durability of light frame revolvers is case head thrust against the frame.

    The .32 S&W Long case is 0.11 sq.-in. head area, whereas the .38 Special is 0.155 sq.-in.

    So if we use the SAAMI MAP for the .32 H&R Magnum at 22,500 psi the thrust against the revolver frame is 0.11(22,500)=2475 pounds, whereas...

    In .38 Special standard-pressure loads at 0.155(16,000 psi) = 2480 pounds, which defines the design limit for the alloy frame Colt Cobra, etc.

    So in modern postwar .32 S&W Long revolvers keep sample averages <20,000 you are on safe ground, even looking at occasional use in an alloy frame Colt Cobra or Courier.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 06-09-2021 at 08:36 PM.

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