Page 1 of 15 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 145

Thread: Proposed Criteria for Braces

  1. #1

    Proposed Criteria for Braces

    The ATF is looking into a new way to determine if a firearm is an SBR or a pistol: https://www.atf.gov/rules-and-regula...ilizing-braces

    An alleged worksheet to do the determination:



    Note how the use of an LPVO alone would disqualify a firearm from one-handed firing status. The weight thing could also be tough (120 oz is 7.5 lb).
    Last edited by Default.mp3; 06-07-2021 at 02:15 PM.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    Southwest Pennsylvania
    Just a quick glance down the list, keeping in mind that 4 points or more in either section II or section III is disqualifying, makes it appear very difficult or impossible for most braces to meet the criteria to avoid being an SBR.

    Putting the presence of rifle-type backup sights in the same line as no sights makes no sense. If someone adds these sights, they have a possible problem, but if they do not add the sights, they have the same problem?!

    This looks like nothing more than a very convoluted way of saying "Take the brace off the AR pistol or register it as an SBR, or else."
    Last edited by BillSWPA; 06-07-2021 at 03:00 PM.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    Hell, a law folder running a slick buffer tube buys you two points.
    H4 HEADING – MUST EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA OF DENOUNG PLEASURE AND PRAISING PAIN WAS U HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA

  4. #4
    Looks like they’re finally releasing a set of “objective” standards. Basically every useful configuration of AR pistol would be an NFA item based on these criteria. Also, how the hell is incorporating a brace in the cuff configuration with an elastic strap or a fin configuration without a strap a category that adds points in section 3? They’re saying that just having a common configuration of pistol brace on your pistol is an indicator that it’s actually a rifle? WTF?

  5. #5
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    The 603
    It’s basically bullshit.
    Ken

    BBI: ...”you better not forget the safe word because shit's about to get weird”...
    revchuck38: ...”mo' ammo is mo' betta' unless you're swimming or on fire.”

  6. #6
    I'm just wondering how far will be too far to the point of getting MANUFACTURERS to actually unify and fight back against this shit...

  7. #7
    Most of the.point system is subjective. Here we are again with huge amounts of ambiguity.

    Working as intended.
    Owner Rockey Brass
    www.rockeybrass.com
    Reloading supplies and firearms parts

  8. #8
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    @joshs I’m sure y’all have seen this... any comments.

    It looks like with the AG signing off on everything pistol braces will be illegal in 90 days.


    After further digginand in classic atf fashion I found this on page 29:

    Even if a weapon accrues less than 4 points in each section, attempts by a manufacturer or maker to circumvent Federal law by attaching purported “stabilizing braces” in lieu of shoulder stocks may result in classification of those weapons as “rifles” and “short-barreled rifles.” While some manufacturers have recognized that there is a market advantage in designing and selling “short-barreled rifles” as “pistols” to customers seeking to avoid tax and registration requirements, “stabilizing braces” are not a method by which the Federal statutes may be circumvented. Therefore, efforts to advertise, sell, or otherwise distribute “short-barreled rifles” as such will result in a classification as a “rifle” regardless of the points accrued on the ATF Worksheet 4999 because there is no longer any question that the intent is for the weapon to be fired from the shoulder.
    Use the worksheet to see if you’re legal, but ultimately everything will be illegal so whatever score you get on the worksheet doesn’t matter because:ATF!
    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 06-07-2021 at 05:52 PM.
    H4 HEADING – MUST EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA OF DENOUNG PLEASURE AND PRAISING PAIN WAS U HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA

  9. #9
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    @joshs I’m sure y’all have seen this... any comments.

    It looks like with the AG signing off on everything pistol braces will be illegal in 90 days.


    After further digginand in classic atf fashion I found this on page 29:



    Use the worksheet to see if you’re legal, but ultimately everything will be illegal so whatever score you get on the worksheet doesn’t matter because:ATF!
    There are certainly a number of arbitrary factors that have no bearing on whether a given firearm is designed and intended to be fired from the shoulder, so there are definitely some things to challenge. If the Sixth Circuit's ruling that agencies don't get deference for criminal statutes holds up on appeal, then there is a chance this doesn't survive.

    Also, the comment period only closed 90 days after this is posted in the federal register. The government then has to consider the comments and publish a final rule, which almost always has a delayed effective date. So, the total time period will be longer than 90 days.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Away, away, away, down.......
    @joshs thanks for the insights.

    I do have one more question. Would their proposed changing of the definition of sbr to include “pistol brace” require a congressional vote?
    H4 HEADING – MUST EXPLAIN TO YOU HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA OF DENOUNG PLEASURE AND PRAISING PAIN WAS U HOW ALL THIS MISTAKEN IDEA

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •