Transitioning to P30 from G19. Some Q's on grip.

[K-Fura]

Hello. Although this is my first post on this forum I have kept up with pistol-training for quite some time. I am two days and 300 rounds into the P30. Before I ask these questions I will lay out a few details. I am coming from a years work with a G19 exclusively along with it being my EDC. I am a lefty first and foremost. Although I have always enjoyed not having a slide release for my support hand to catch, is I have free range for my support hand to get really aggressive with my thumbs forward grip; I am finally opening up to the advantages of a fully ambidextrous gun. My P30 is currently v2 with a v4 conversion spring on its way.

I've noticed that I found a certain comfort over my time with the G19 gripping it in a fashion to where my middle support finger references the bottom of the trigger guard vs. using my index like the vast majority (Dave Sevigny etc...). I'm not exactly sure why I do this, I believe I found that it elevates the particular point along the frame where I can apply the most pressure when I use inward "vice-like' pressure, i.e. you feel a contraction in your pectorals. Moving to a new platform, I would like to accelerate the process of regaining proficiency as quickly as possible and the very first thing that came to me was that now I will have to avoid FTLB by making sure my support thumb is beneath the slide release. So far I have yet to experience FTLB with either grip as long as I ride my support thumb just along the bottom edge of the frame. Making light contact along the bottom edge of the rail seems to work just fine for keeping this index. This seems the case with both grips... (Index finger directly under guard or middle finger directly under trigger guard with index slightly infront of it). To clarify, I do not ride my index in front of the trigger guard at all, it just follows my middle finger directly in front of it.


I've been doing some dry firing and I can see certain consistency advantages in using my index in the trigger guard's edge like most shooters do. In trying to analyze why I feel I used the other method in the first place, I simply feel that it allows the ability to apply pressure just a hair closer to the slide vs. across the entire void of the support side grip. It also has my pinky placed in the gap of my strong hand ring and pinky vs floating along the bottom.

My question is, do I honestly need to abandon my current grip method and start using my index directly under the trigger guard?


I'm looking for a flaw and the only one I see as that due to my large hands, when I do apply inward pressure, the back of my hand has a tendency to want to pull away from the rear support side of the grip. It's as if my hand lays less "flat" into the void of the support side of the grip. The p30 also has less of a purchase area along the support side of the grip than my g19 did. Because of that, combined with the slide release dodging, I wonder if my middle finger reference grip is cramming my support hand and creating a bigger void than needed...

Any advice on any of this would be very helpful. I know that much of shooting is often charged to the "whatever your comfortable with" train of thought, but perhaps someone else has been in my position before and can chime in.

Also any advice on grip panels would be awesome. I currently run an entirely medium grip. I tried the large side panels when I took the gun out for the first 200 rounds. I have noticed any grotesque difference in anything just yet.

On another side note... During ball and dummy drills today, I noticed that during my transition from the G19 to HK I am anticipating the shot during slow deliberate shooting. I am still sort of... "staging" the trigger. Any advice on this would help as well. After much reading I am coming to find that many are having greater proficiency with a "rolling revolver" type pull. What I am asking is how I can go about training this method during dry firing and live firing? Should I avoid stopping my rearward motion at any given point during my pull at all? Basically once I begin pulling, make sure I just keep coming with increasing pressure to finish?

This brings up another question, those of you who have become proficient with this rolling trigger method, do you release to reset? or are you releasing in front of reset or all the way?

Thank you... I know this is a load of stuff...

[YVK]

I've been working on the same transition since October, and just about there where I am consistently matching or even exceeding my performance with Glock 19. My thoughts are below:

My question is, do I honestly need to abandon my current grip method and start using my index directly under the trigger guard?

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This is unconventional, but if you're used to it and had good results with G19, then I don't see why I would change.

Also any advice on grip panels would be awesome. I currently run an entirely medium grip. I tried the large side panels when I took the gun out for the first 200 rounds. I have noticed any grotesque difference in anything just yet.

There was a good thread or two here about grip selection, boiling down to accessibility to controls etc. Lot's of folks use grip adjustments to keep away from those slide releases. I'd have to admit that for me this has became some sort of obsession, changing it for minute gains, sometimes more perceived than real. Luckily, a lot of it can be sorted out in dry fire. Some of it needs (slide lockback etc) live fire and note taking. I think all medium is a great starting point. I've moved to a large backstrap in order to keep away from slide releases and slightly open my strong hand grip, and have been experimenting with medium vs small side inserts.

On another side note... During ball and dummy drills today, I noticed that during my transition from the G19 to HK I am anticipating the shot during slow deliberate shooting. I am still sort of... "staging" the trigger. Any advice on this would help as well. After much reading I am coming to find that many are having greater proficiency with a "rolling revolver" type pull. What I am asking is how I can go about training this method during dry firing and live firing? Should I avoid stopping my rearward motion at any given point during my pull at all? Basically once I begin pulling, make sure I just keep coming with increasing pressure to finish?

Those two sentences I put in bold have very important content: stopping rearward motion doesn't mean stopping to increase the pressure, right? As long as I keep building up the pressure, I don't care if trigger/hammer are physically moving back. Sometimes the rate with which I am applying pressure has to slow down if I don't have the sight picture yet, but I try my best to never come to a complete stop. LEM trigger is hard that way because of pronounced step-up of that second stage, and it is easy to stage it there. Have to train through this.
Again, for me the realization that I don't have to go through the pull with same or ever increasing speed of trigger pull (even though it is probably desirable) was an important part.

The reset part: I don't ride the reset, I think most agree it is counterproductive, and I don't go all the way out - it is just too long of a pull to negotiate on every shot. For me this was one of the hardest part of shooting LEM, and still is. With LEM trigger will not stop moving forward until your finger stops. With Glock you can even lose the contact with the trigger and won't be penalized with a mile-long pull. I think working the trigger on LEM is much more "shooter-involved" process than with Glock.

[ToddG]

My question is, do I honestly need to abandon my current grip method and start using my index directly under the trigger guard?

Have to? No. There are people who teach putting the off hand index finger in a variety of different spots along the trigger guard. Personally, I prefer having it as high and far back as I can. As my hand rotates forward, the finger moves a tad farther forward than actually pressed into the middle finger of my shooting hand. The exact setup is going to depend on you, the gun, etc.

Because of that, combined with the slide release dodging, I wonder if my middle finger reference grip is cramming my support hand and creating a bigger void than needed...

Also any advice on grip panels would be awesome. I currently run an entirely medium grip. I tried the large side panels when I took the gun out for the first 200 rounds. I have noticed any grotesque difference in anything just yet.

You don't have to use the same size in every position. For example, if you find you've got a "void" that needs filling per your comment above, go up to the L grip in that area.

During ball and dummy drills today, I noticed that during my transition from the G19 to HK I am anticipating the shot during slow deliberate shooting. I am still sort of... "staging" the trigger. Any advice on this would help as well.

Sure: don't stage the trigger.

Basically once I begin pulling, make sure I just keep coming with increasing pressure to finish?

Yes. Don't think of the pull in terms of distance. Think of it in terms of pressure. Don't worry about whether the trigger is moving. As long as you constantly add pressure, your finger is moving. It will get the trigger out of the way when it should. Trying to force it is what causes anticipation.

This brings up another question, those of you who have become proficient with this rolling trigger method, do you release to reset? or are you releasing in front of reset or all the way?

As a rule I try not to ride the reset precisely because that creates a greater likelihood of short stroking/trigger freeze. After all, you're going to operate within a certain margin of error and if your performance window for the reset distance includes anything that is too short, sometimes you'll freeze.

[K-Fura]

Thanks for all the great advice! That clarified many of the questions I had. One last thing... Do any of you have a small bit of play in your grip panels??? I noticed it today doing reloads. My rear panels has a bit of side to side and top to bottom play. Not a lot but just enough to where you can feel it during a slide lock reload or press out.

Do all p30s have this? Negative effects???

[YVK]

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Do all p30s have this?

Mine does not.

[JohnN]

Mine does not.

Mine does.

[psalms144.1]

WRT wobbly grip panels, I have found that the side panels will slide into place in a way the SEEMS to be fully seated, but isn't. If that's the case, the back panel fit will tend to be a little "loose," and the side panels will have some "flex" to them. Try reinstalling the side panels - when they're properly aligned and seated, there will be no backward "push" to them, and they won't wobble or flex at all. Then the back panel should be nice and snug as well...

Regards,

Kevin