FBI agent arrested in shooting

[HeavyDuty]

Hmmm. I need to find the baton - now I’m questioning whether it’s an ASP since it has a very prominent end knob like that.

[KevH]

I have my late stepfather’s ASP, I’m curious about how it differs from a Peacekeeper RCB.

Edit - ok, maybe a balance issue?

The ASP, in my humble opinion having bent one years ago and now sitting on my department's Use of Force Review Board, is one hair away from being useless.

It typically takes about five or so ASP strikes to approach one good solid strike with a 29" wood straight stick.

In this video era we are in watch someone using an ASP versus someone using a straight stick. An officer striking someone hard one or two times effectively looks much more reasonable to most people than an officer swinging a little stick a dozen times.

@AMC ...I totally agree. An ASP is what you carry so you can claim you have an impact weapon to satisfy some policy. The reality is you really don't have one.

[DDTSGM]

The ASP, in my humble opinion having bent one years ago and now sitting on my department's Use of Force Review Board, is one hair away from being useless.

It typically takes about five or so ASP strikes to approach one good solid strike with a 29" wood straight stick.

In this video era we are in watch someone using an ASP versus someone using a straight stick. An officer striking someone hard one or two times effectively looks much more reasonable to most people than an officer swinging a little stick a dozen times.

@AMC ...I totally agree. An ASP is what you carry so you can claim you have an impact weapon to satisfy some policy. The reality is you really don't have one.

I feel that the TASER, expandable batons, and OC were all significant developments in LE defensive tools.

The OC projectors, which replaced CN and CS projectors, were a breakthrough because of less cross-contamination potential, having both respiratory and visual effects, freedom from chemical burn injury, and quicker decontamination.

The TASER, with both probes properly deployed, is simply the most effective less-lethal tool devised for individual officer carry.

The expandable baton is significant, not because of increased effectiveness, rather because they allow the officer to always have an impact weapon present while in uniform.

Back in the day most agencies didn't give you reprimands if you got out of the unit without a baton. In common practice, most batons rode laying on the floor between the door sill and seat mounts, or jammed in between the seat and seat back if you had ever been in a pursuit and had the baton slide out and interfere with braking or accelerating. As a result, many officers forgot to take the time to ring their baton on calls where the baton would be useful, or neglected to take the baton because they felt it wouldn't be needed, as in 'it's just a car stop.'

All three of these weapons suffer somewhat from unrealistic expectations, and in the case of the OC and baton, looking back through rose-colored glasses.

I've used, and seen both wood, ebonite and five-cell batons used on folks. Personally, I've had mixed results. In my experience real drunks, crazies and totally pissed-off people tend not to think 'shit, I've been just been hit with a baton, that's gotta hurt I better stop' and tend to continue on unless you've knocked out a joint or charlie-horsed them.

No baton works as effectively as a sap does, for the same reason that a dead-blow hammer drives better than a conventional hammer - energy transfer. This is the reason that you can get away with sloppier technique with a solid, heavier straight baton, than you can with an expandable.

Expandables work more effectively if you hit and stick or drive through your target than if you let the baton bounce or drag through your target.

As mentioned, this is a technique thing. You can get away with sloppier technique when using a solid, heavier baton.

So, yes, a straight baton used with proper technique will perform better than an expandable. My point being that while the expandables are not as effective as a solid baton, they are not ineffective, just much more dependent on proper technique for their effectiveness.

I'm not going to ramble on about OC and TASER at this point. Suffice to say, I'd rather have an expandable with me, than a straight stick back in the unit.

[fixer]

As alluded to earlier, in my locale 'aggressive panhandling' is basically unarmed mugging.

I experienced a similar altercation in downtown Albuquerque in 2010 or so. Sketchy beggar/mugger dude didn't appear to be armed but he had no issues getting drill-sergeant close to me and my date and repeatedly wouldn't take no for an answer.
I figured it was going hot in 5 seconds or less and I was moving between this guy and my date to prepare for it, but thankfully a police car drove by right at that moment. The offender saw it and about-faced and walked away like nothing was going on.

While we don't know all the details, I'm siding with the FBI SA over some Red line metro pirate. That pirate chose to make it physical all over again just because of words, and that's his problem, not the FBI SA's.
I understand that everyone's paranoid about avoiding UoF and willing to be a doormat over it, but at some point something's gotta give with this stuff. I'm honestly pretty annoyed that he was arrested and charged over it.

yep.

word for word what I was going to type.

[LittleLebowski]

Attempting to turn one's life around is one of the most dangerous activities one may pursue.

That and aspiring to be a rapper.

[GJM]

Feds to require body cams:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-man...110510?mod=mhp

[TC215]

Feds to require body cams:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-man...110510?mod=mhp

Going to be a tremendous waste of money.

[vcdgrips]

I law clerked at the US Atty's Office in the summer of 1991. I law clerked in the County Prosecutor's Office in the Fall of 1991. I have been an Atty since 1992 during which time I defended juveniles accused of "crimes" on a pro bono basis as a part of being a young litigation associate at a large regional law firm. I was a county prosecutor from 1996 to 1997 and been a federal prosecutor since the Summer of 1997.

In short, I have been hearing about/litigating the usage of dash cams, audio recording of custodial/non custodial interviews, video recording of custodial/non custodial interviews and body cams in parallel real time to their widespread introduction and use by local, state and federal agencies in and around a 1 million+ metropolitan area that straddles two states.

In my opinion, from the very involved outside looking in, these recordings solve far more problems than they create, exonerate far more officers/agents that they jam up, make more cases than they break and long term, save more money than they cost.

To paraphrase my "highest ranking" shooting mentor who will likely claim me, Tom Givens, the WHY of the moment is not nearly as important as the WHAT. Why we have got to the point where the public/media/defense & plaintiffs bar far too frequently no longer have a default response of trust re the words and deeds of LEOS is not as off much import as to what is happening in this moment.


I am prayerful, hopeful and cautiously optimistic that the wider spread use of various recording devices with ultimately restore some confidence in LEOS at all levels and better protect those who serve.

YMMV Greatly.

[TGS]

Just so there's no confusion, the bodycam thing would have zero impact on the topic of this thread.

[psalms144.1]

Just so there's no confusion, the bodycam thing would have zero impact on the topic of this thread.

Correct, since it appears the proposal will limit plainclothes BWC wear to planned operations or arrests, it would not have been "in play" in this event.

I agree that BWCs solve more problems, generally, than they cause. I just doubt that any of them will work for guys who only run planned ops a couple times a year, if that.