FBI agent arrested in shooting

[Ndbbm]

I wasn’t LE, but I was semisworn and worked alongside the deputies. They carried ASPs, and in all the bullshitting sessions over 20 years I never heard one dep bitch about their collapsible baton. What is the issue with them?

I’ve seen them bent from the impact with a person and cause very little if any effect (I’ve never used one on a person as an impact option. I’ve used them to pry arms out and to apply pressure point pain compliance techniques.) They work well for poking a drunk awake or wrapping some tape around the end to fish your evidence out of the bin slot when you forgot to put the bar code on, er hypothetically I’ve heard. Guys that used them when they were still authorized before I started had good things to say about the slappers and how effective they were.

Jason

[Inspector71]

Lord. Give me OC any day over Taser and ASP batons. IMHO, expandable batons are largely useless and Tasers are at best bet 50/50 having any effect.

When I first started in 1995 all we had was OC (CAPSTUN), sidearm (Sig P226 9mm), two reloads, handcuffs, a SL20, and an old school Kenwood walkie. The SL20 is the best impact weapon on the market...just my experience anyway.

Kenwood eh ? We had an off brand of walkie called Repco. Size and weight of a brick. The cars had GE radios in them. I longed for a department that had Motorola.

[KeeFus]

Kenwood eh ? We had an off brand of walkie called Repco. Size and weight of a brick. The cars had GE radios in them. I longed for a department that had Motorola.

The Kenwood's were small for that time frame. The Kenwood’s didn’t work well as impact weapons though…not that I did that but I seen it done…. They did work well as otherwise intended. We started switching to Motorola’s at that agency in the late 90’s

My last 14ish years in we used Harris radios. We wanted Motorola’s but it seemed like the communications director was in bed with the local Harris distributor. IMHO, Motorola is the gold standard by which others are graded.

[Coyotesfan97]

Lord. Give me OC any day over Taser and ASP batons. IMHO, expandable batons are largely useless and Tasers are at best bet 50/50 having any effect.

When I first started in 1995 all we had was OC (CAPSTUN), sidearm (Sig P226 9mm), two reloads, handcuffs, a SL20, and an old school Kenwood walkie. The SL20 is the best impact weapon on the market...just my experience anyway.

When I started it was a Model 66 357, two speed loaders, handcuffs, CS, a Maglite, a straight baton, and a digital GE handheld. The CS was never used other than to expose me at the academy. The Maglite and the baton were both used. I worked with one guy who had a six D cell Maglite. I always said he could tap someone from the other side of the room.

The first time I used an ASP in a knockdown fight I hit a guy 10-15 times on the outer thigh. He finally went down just as the cavalry arrived for the pile up. At the jail he had welts on his leg like I’d hit him with a whip. I never left my PR24 in the car again.

ETA
I would chose Sabre Red OC over tasers and expandable batons any day. My personal success rate with OC was 95% or better.

[AMC]

Lord. Give me OC any day over Taser and ASP batons. IMHO, expandable batons are largely useless and Tasers are at best bet 50/50 having any effect.

When I first started in 1995 all we had was OC (CAPSTUN), sidearm (Sig P226 9mm), two reloads, handcuffs, a SL20, and an old school Kenwood walkie. The SL20 is the best impact weapon on the market...just my experience anyway.

An ASP is something you carry so that you can say "Yes I had my impact weapon on me" per policy in the event you shoot someone. It's carrying a baton without carrying one.

The Peacekeeper RCB however.....is The Almighty's Rod of Correction. Even deploying it gets the flinch and "Oh shit, that's a fucking metal pipe" look. A very different ballgame.

[TGS]

An ASP is something you carry so that you can say "Yes I had my impact weapon on me" per policy in the event you shoot someone. It's carrying a baton without carrying one.

The Peacekeeper RCB however.....is The Almighty's Rod of Correction. Even deploying it gets the flinch and "Oh shit, that's a fucking metal pipe" look. A very different ballgame.

Unfortunately we changed our policy 2 years ago (maybe?) to where we are now only authorized to carry specifically what we are issued.

A peacekeeper would be a welcome addition to some of our details.........like working with the Turks. Big events + Turks = hands on, almost without exception. Super heavy and not very amenable to plainclothes carry, but for those specific times it'd be nice to have the option.

I'm guessing that besides liability of letting your agents run around with shit they're not specifically trained on, partially the reason that policy happened is because lots of guys and gals were buying and carrying the ASP Agent, you know the little 6-10oz one made for concealed carry. Their intentions were good....they were trying to carry a baton more often than they would have with the "regular" 16" ASP like when doing field stops and whatnot, but it's ultimately a step in the wrong direction from a results-on-target standpoint.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now agents are restricted to the regular sized ASPs, but don't carry them as often as the ASP Agent series. Which is ultimately a better end state? I only ever met one or two agents who had bought Peacekeepers, obviously due to their size/weight and the fact we're mostly working plainclothes. I never went that route prior to the policy changing because while the policy didn't prohibit it, it's the fact that the further away you get from your training, the more likely you are to get something substantiated against you when using intermediate force adjuncts. While FLETC's baton program is a general course not specific to a brand, the fact remained I had never had a Peacemaker curriculum, or trained with one, thus it seemed like an easy target for lawsuits and administrative punitive action when the agency felt it necessary to put us through ASPs curriculum after FLETC basically for no reason other than liability mitigation.

Personally I really wish we were allowed saps. Super easy to carry, very effective.

[jnc36rcpd]

Everyone, except the bad guy's estate's lawyers, would be much happier if the agent had utilized OC spray. In my experience, OC deployment would not have created a significant issue on a Metro car at that hour in that location. In retrospect, for the agent and everyone except the Washington Post, wouldn't it have been better even if crowded Metro cars had to be evacuated?

[HeavyDuty]

Unfortunately we changed our policy 2 years ago (maybe?) to where we are now only authorized to carry specifically what we are issued.

A peacekeeper would be a welcome addition to some of our details.........like working with the Turks. Big events + Turks = hands on, almost without exception. Super heavy and not very amenable to plainclothes carry, but for those specific times it'd be nice to have the option.

I'm guessing that besides liability of letting your agents run around with shit they're not specifically trained on, partially the reason that policy happened is because lots of guys and gals were buying and carrying the ASP Agent, you know the little 6-10oz one made for concealed carry. Their intentions were good....they were trying to carry a baton more often than they would have with the "regular" 16" ASP like when doing field stops and whatnot, but it's ultimately a step in the wrong direction from a results-on-target standpoint.

So, damned if you do, damned if you don't. Now agents are restricted to the regular sized ASPs, but don't carry them as often as the ASP Agent series. Which is ultimately a better end state? I only ever met one or two agents who had bought Peacekeepers, obviously due to their size/weight and the fact we're mostly working plainclothes. I never went that route prior to the policy changing because while the policy didn't prohibit it, it's the fact that the further away you get from your training, the more likely you are to get something substantiated against you when using intermediate force adjuncts. While FLETC's baton program is a general course not specific to a brand, the fact remained I had never had a Peacemaker curriculum, or trained with one, thus it seemed like an easy target for lawsuits and administrative punitive action when the agency felt it necessary to put us through ASPs curriculum after FLETC basically for no reason other than liability mitigation.

Personally I really wish we were allowed saps. Super easy to carry, very effective.

I have my late stepfather’s ASP, I’m curious about how it differs from a Peacekeeper RCB.

Edit - ok, maybe a balance issue?

[FNFAN]

I have my late stepfather’s ASP, I’m curious about how it differs from a Peacekeeper RCB.

Edit - ok, maybe a balance issue?

Weight and construction. This shows an ASP on top and a Peacekeeper on the bottom (may actually be a winchester the predecessor to the Peacekeeper)

[AMC]

Weight and construction. This shows an ASP on top and a Peacekeeper on the bottom (may actually be a winchester the predecessor to the Peacekeeper)

Yeah...kinda looks like the Winchester. May be wrong though.