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Thread: Closed vs open-top magazine pouches

  1. #1

    Closed vs open-top magazine pouches

    Closed vs Open Top Magazine Pouches
    Posted to YouTube on May 3, 2021, by theJayRaff
    The fifth and final installment in the Super Scientific Reload Study series. Please spread the message and hopefully we can slowly change the way things are done together! Stay sharp!


  2. #2
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    I agree with the assessment that open top mag pouches are a non-issue. I'd say they're actually more secure than closed top, since most closed top pouches don't retain the mag through friction....so if the snap gets undone, the mag is gone.

    But, all seriousness aside, I couldn't help but think of this for the 2nd half of the video:

    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  3. #3
    Those horizontal double pouches with Velcro flaps are the best argument I know for open tops.

    But not all open top pouches are created the same, I have seen loose magazines.
    I think I would have one flap pouch behind the open tops as a reserve.
    Code Name: JET STREAM

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    Open top is probably fine for a lot of urban, day to day CCW use. Maybe it's ok for duty use too, but I'll defer to the LE folks.

    However, I think they missed the most common way for gear to fall out of open-topped pouches - contact with another items, such as a door jambs, counter tops, tree limbs, brush, etc.

    At a carbine class I can usually tell the guys who have never patrolled in rough country by the way they carry their mags. I've lost plenty of stuff from my beltline and LBE while patrolling (back in my ancient USMC days), or more recently while hunting in the National Forest and working in rough country as a field scientist. In those circumstances I'll go with closed top pouches every time. (Preferably dummy corded to the belt or LBE).

    I'll also note that John Coreira from Active Self Protection has found that reloads that actually influence the outcome of a gunfight are incredibly rare. His view has developed after watching 20,000 to 30,000 gunfights, so that's a decent dataset. (ETA: His dataset doesn't include .mil engagements. I'd posit that in .mil engagement reloads are more likely to occur, and have a higher degree of import.

    YMMV
    Last edited by Mark D; 05-28-2021 at 01:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Member TGS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    However, I think they missed the most common way for gear to fall out of open-topped pouches - contact with another items, such as a door jambs, counter tops, tree limbs, brush, etc.
    I've definitely found this with mag carriers tensioned to range use for slick reloads and by people who CCW but don't work with a gun, and are overly concerned about their timer scores. Not so much when it's tensioned properly, though....like RCS Copia pouches that are cinched down pretty good, or HSGI tacos.

    Clamshell-type mag carriers that rely on the tension of the folded over kydex to retain the mag have terrible retention when coming in contact with anything, as they're easily pinned against the body by the object and dislodged. Every single time I did a vehicle crossload/bailout with one, I lost the mag. Never with the RCS Copias, though, and my HSGI tacos are not only tensioned pretty tight but also the mags ride pretty deep in them.
    "Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I've definitely found this with mag carriers tensioned to range use for slick reloads and by people who CCW but don't work with a gun, and are overly concerned about their timer scores. Not so much when it's tensioned properly, though....like RCS Copia pouches that are cinched down pretty good, or HSGI tacos.

    Clamshell-type mag carriers that rely on the tension of the folded over kydex to retain the mag have terrible retention when coming in contact with anything, as they're easily pinned against the body by the object and dislodged. Every single time I did a vehicle crossload/bailout with one, I lost the mag. Never with the RCS Copias, though, and my HSGI tacos are not only tensioned pretty tight but also the mags ride pretty deep in them.
    Thanks for sharing your experience, TGS. I appreciate the extra detail.

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Trooper224's Avatar
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    For the last few years of my career we went to open pouches and it wasn't optional. Having lost things in years past in a foot chase, during SWAT ops, manhunts, etc. I was leery of the concept. I'd never had a problem with flapped pouches in the mil, or the previous twenty something years in LE work, so I was skeptical if the juice was worth the squeeze. Fortunately, the pouch featured a tension adjustment screw that I made good use of. I will say, I never lost the mags off my belt in a fight, a foot chase, going prone with a rile, or anything else, so it wound up being a no drama scenario.
    We may lose and we may win, but we will never be here again.......

  8. #8
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    In addition to a tension screw, I would like to see more magazine pouches with an inward projection to engage the opening in the magazine which receives the magazine release of the gun, so that friction is not the only thing retaining the magazine.


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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trooper224 View Post
    I never lost the mags off my belt in a fight, a foot chase, going prone with a rile, or anything else, so it wound up being a no drama scenario.
    Same here...for the first couple of years, I wore a flapped Safariland mag pouch, because that's what I was issued. Then I switched to leather Bianchi Triple Threat open top, and then an Accumold when I swapped guns later and they stopped making the leather version...been wearing those for 25 years or so and have never had a magazine retention issue. I also wore various open top carriers on my SWAT rig (Eagle, HSGI, etc.) with zero retention problems.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark D View Post
    Open top is probably fine for a lot of urban, day to day CCW use. Maybe it's ok for duty use too, but I'll defer to the LE folks.

    However, I think they missed the most common way for gear to fall out of open-topped pouches - contact with another items, such as a door jambs, counter tops, tree limbs, brush, etc.

    At a carbine class I can usually tell the guys who have never patrolled in rough country by the way they carry their mags. I've lost plenty of stuff from my beltline and LBE while patrolling (back in my ancient USMC days), or more recently while hunting in the National Forest and working in rough country as a field scientist. In those circumstances I'll go with closed top pouches every time. (Preferably dummy corded to the belt or LBE).

    I'll also note that John Coreira from Active Self Protection has found that reloads that actually influence the outcome of a gunfight are incredibly rare. His view has developed after watching 20,000 to 30,000 gunfights, so that's a decent dataset. (ETA: His dataset doesn't include .mil engagements. I'd posit that in .mil engagement reloads are more likely to occur, and have a higher degree of import.

    YMMV
    I’ve been using open top pouches for the last 8 years daily in the conditions you describe. From triple canopy jungle to thick dry scrub and never one lost a magazine including when falling down draws, off cliffs or waist deep in ressacas filled with carizo, never lost a pistol or rifle magazine from an open top pouch.

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