FORD DEALERS LACK OF SERVICE ON OLDER VEHICLES ?

[1slow]

FORD DEALERS LACK OF SERVICE ON OLDER VEHICLES ?

Since 1997 I have been a customer of the same Ford Dealership in Lugoff SC. When Mr. Redfearn owned it it was a pleasure to deal with. Later management was not as good.

Purchases were:
1997 F350 4x4 crew cab,
2000 Excursion V10 4x4,
2005 Excursion V10 4x4,
2004 Expedition 4x4.
2003 Mustang Cobra.

I still have the Excursions and Expedition. I am very happy with the Excursion V10 4x4s.

Lugoff Ford did 95% of the service on these vehicles.


THE PROBLEM
I had scheduled service on my 2005 Excursion V10 4x4 for: why was the engine service light coming on, an oil/filter change and to see what else it might need.

Jeff from service did not return my call back to his original call so I called him again.
Jeff told me that they were willing to do the oil/filter change but they would not diagnose or repair why the service engine light was coming on.
I find this to be inexcusable.

Dealer used to point to older vehicles that were still in service with pride and proof of the quality of the vehicles. Evidently Lugoff Ford is no longer interested in servicing older vehicles past the oil and filter change level.

I am not sure if this lack of supporting older vehicles is just Lugoff Ford or is company wide.
———
I will use an independent shop for repairs.

I am less likely to want another Ford after this. I just want to keep what I have in good shape.

Any thoughts ?

[LittleLebowski]

Did you try contacting the owner of the dealership?

[1slow]

Owner, Ford Corporate are next on my list.

I do not have much hope about the owner.
Redfearn was a great owner, the one after was a big step down and the current one I am dubious about.

[Navin Johnson]

If it is a privately owned dealership the owner is likely on board with whatever decision the service department makes as he probably was involved in making that decision.

I remember several years ago a local Ford dealer turned away warranty customers because they had so much retail work that paid them much better than the warranty work did.

The other issue is technicians are very hard to get and most dealerships are very low on them so they're probably aiming towards the more profitable repairs and avoiding chasing Gremlins on old cars.

[rd62]

@1slow

I just had my wife's 2011 Expedition serviced at Jim Hudson Ford in Lexington without issue. Its not a 2005 and a little haul from Lugoff but I don't believe your issue to be indicative of all Ford dealers. We deal with Bob (I don't know his last name) there and he's been good the few times we've taken it in.

[JRB]

03 Cobra? Niiiice.


Long story short, the 6.8L V10 hasn't been offered in common passenger vehicles since 2005.
Like every auto maker these days, attrition/turnover/etc with service techs is worse than it has ever been. So that dealership is likely doing you a favor because it's likely they have maybe one or two guys in that whole service department with any kind of formal training on servicing the 6.8L V10. Or an Excursion of any powertrain, for that matter.

I'd say it's equally likely that not a single tech in that whole workshop has formal training on either, and they'd be dependent on factory documentation and 'figuring it out' to actually do real work on it. Which screws flag hour technicians in a big way (nobody wants to spend 15 hours getting a 5 hour job done right for the first time that they'll likely never do again, and only get paid for that 5 hours) and also screws the service writer because that 'figure it out' time is time lost for that tech to get something else done that they know 100%.
Add parts availability to the mix, and the high chance that whatever part(s) needs to be replaced is no longer available as a Ford Genuine part, and thereby impossible for a dealership to replace, it all adds up to a shit sandwich nobody wants to eat.

So given the high likelihood of a rushed job by a tech that doesn't truly know that V10, and the corresponding high likelihood parts being impossible to find, or a botched repair resulting in a bringback and pissed off customer - it's cheaper in time and money for everyone to annoy you, the customer, up front by simply just skipping the job entirely.

To reiterate, this is an issue across older models from literally every brand selling vehicles in the US these days. Vehicles 10+ years old should be considered enthusiast vehicles and dealership ability and skill for maintaining/repairing them should be heavily scrutinized.

If you're not interested in a newer vehicle, I'd find a local diesel shop that does lots of work on old 7.3L Powerstrokes and such, and ask them about working on your Excursion.

[Coyotesfan97]

I recently had a camshaft position sensor CEL crop up on my 05 Jeep Wrangler. The easy fix is a new one. Chrysler/Dodge no longer makes the part so no OEM and you’re rolling the dice on new parts. Jeep forum guys recommend getting a used one from a wrecking yard. It’s the first thing you replace and hop it works. If a new one doesn’t fix it it’s a Gremlin.

I had a Gremlin. I took it to the dealership and the service guy I dealt with put a specific long term mechanic on it because he’d have the long term knowledge to deal with it. It ended up taking longer because I was third in line. He had to replace some wiring that took care of it. I don’t know how long it would’ve taken a new mechanic to fix.

[trailrunner]

I'd say it's equally likely that not a single tech in that whole workshop has formal training on either, and they'd be dependent on factory documentation and 'figuring it out' to actually do real work on it. Which screws flag hour technicians in a big way (nobody wants to spend 15 hours getting a 5 hour job done right for the first time that they'll likely never do again, and only get paid for that 5 hours) and also screws the service writer because that 'figure it out' time is time lost for that tech to get something else done that they know 100%.

I never really understood charging the book value, or a flat rate, for each repair. Seems like it inflates the price, because as I understand it, a good mechanic can usually do a repair much faster (I can even do some repairs faster than the book rate, and I'm an amateur). Is this correct?

Overall, this is another reason I really hate dealers. I fully and completely understand that they want to make a profit, but sometimes in business there will be some losing jobs. If he bought 5 cars from the dealership and has been bringing them in over the last 20-25 years for routine things like oil changes, they've made a decent profit on all the other jobs. Not only give the tech a break, give him a reward for figuring it out (OK, I'm a little naive). A company like Ford that has been in business for a century should stand behind their product and fix the truck.

This is just my opinion and another reason I despise dealerships and go to my local garage. They specifically advertise that they will keep your older car running because it's cheaper than buying a new car. Two of my cars are 19 and 17 years old and they've never had problems getting parts. My old truck was 25 years old and they also kept that running for me until it rusted out.

[farscott]

It is important to remember that dealers make the vast majority of profit from selling service parts and, not as much, servicing vehicles. It is also important to remember that a dealer can make the most money on warranty repairs as Ford pays the book rate for the job as well as for the part. OEMs are supposed to have enough service parts for vehicles to last a decade after the end of production. For Ford, FCSD also supports with troublesome issues. Out of warranty means the dealer has to pay for the part and for the labor and charge the customer enough to make a profit and the OEM does not support the repair. The most important thing to remember is the OEM has limited control of a dealer for out of warranty issues, like basically none. So dealers pick and choose how long a vehicle will be supported. Known trouble vehicles can get booted faster, especially if the only part source is junked vehicles.

So repairing a 2005 vehicle is problematic for three reasons. The one about techs not being current is a big one, but the others are that is much better to do warranty repairs than to work on an old vehicle where the part supply is unknown and the OEM has no incentive to help the tech. The combo of lack of experience, no part support, and no OEM support means it is much more profitable to turn away the one customer in one hundred that wants to repair a fifteen year-old vehicle at a dealer. That is the province of an independent.

[AKDoug]

I never really understood charging the book value, or a flat rate, for each repair. Seems like it inflates the price, because as I understand it, a good mechanic can usually do a repair much faster (I can even do some repairs faster than the book rate, and I'm an amateur). Is this correct?

Overall, this is another reason I really hate dealers. I fully and completely understand that they want to make a profit, but sometimes in business there will be some losing jobs. If he bought 5 cars from the dealership and has been bringing them in over the last 20-25 years for routine things like oil changes, they've made a decent profit on all the other jobs. Not only give the tech a break, give him a reward for figuring it out (OK, I'm a little naive). A company like Ford that has been in business for a century should stand behind their product and fix the truck.

This is just my opinion and another reason I despise dealerships and go to my local garage. They specifically advertise that they will keep your older car running because it's cheaper than buying a new car. Two of my cars are 19 and 17 years old and they've never had problems getting parts. My old truck was 25 years old and they also kept that running for me until it rusted out.

When I was a wrench at an independent shop 25 years ago, we charged flat rate on all jobs because that is what the customers demanded. They wanted to know what the job cost up front, every single time. Now I'm out of that business, but we are a Stihl dealer. We have the same thing going on, the customer needs to know the cost up front, so I charge Stihl book rate.

I would never take a car out of warranty to a dealership. By the time a vehicle is over 6 years old, the advantage of using the dealer is gone and a good independent shop has seen enough of them to keep current and do a good job.