FORD DEALERS LACK OF SERVICE ON OLDER VEHICLES ?

[Mark D]

There's a reason some folks call them "stealerships".

Another vote for a solid independent shop. Ask around, look on Yelp, talk to 'em and get a feel for their skillset.

[farscott]

I think the industry must have turned on it's ear since I was in.

We *hated* warranty work because while yes, there was a flag time attached to it, it was almost impossible to match. Daimler-Chrysler figured warranty paid time starting with the vehicle in the bay, on the lift if necessary, parts in hand, and necessary tools already out. Multiple practice runs had already been made.

Dealer makes the most profit, not the tech, on warranty work. What the dealer gets for the warranty repair is not what the tech gets.

[Hambo]

I would never take a car out of warranty to a dealership.

And then only for warranty work or recalls. I've never known of a dealer that would do the same work for the same price as a non-dealer shop.

Get Sig to work on 556IX. Or get Apple to repair an iPhone 4S. They don't because they don't have to. Just because they made it doesn't mean they have to work on it. This is no different with cars. It is a consumer product.
Once the warranty period is up, the OE makes little if anything on vehicles that last forever. The only benefit to making a vehicle that lasts forever, like a Toyota, is that it drives new vehicle sales by reputation. Toyota, Mercedes, and a few other makers are pretty good about enduring genuine parts for common engines/vehicles that were made by the hundreds of thousands.

If someone wants long term support, they need to look at that before they buy. As an example, Toyota has been dropping 2.7L 4 cylinders in cars/trucks for decades, so they'll be able to work on them. Another option is a vehicle for which you can buy aftermarket parts anywhere, such as a Jeep CJ. If you buy a unicorn, you start with an enthusiast car.

[JRB]

I think the industry must have turned on it's ear since I was in.

...

50 HOURS?!?!?! Wow, things have certainly changed....

I never worked for Dodge but I heard about the stories about 'on the lift, part in hand, everything out and ready, and still not being able to match book time'. Like that breather vent workaround you figured out, mastering those gravy jobs is everything. One of the techs that worked under me figured out a Ford door hinge recall in a similar way when he was at Ford. It was a 2.2hr job on warranty work and he figured out a trick to getting it done in about 1hr so he got every one that came into the shop.

Sure, as recently as 2010-2012ish it was pretty easy to get 45-55 book hours in a work week. But that isn't really the case anymore with most makes. I know some guys at Rich Ford and a few other big domestic dealerships that are eeking by with that, but basically everyone I knew still at a Dodge or import dealership, with the notable exception of Lexus, is taking a bath on book time.

50 hours is an extreme example, but many modern cars, especially German cars, engine R&R's are often in the 30-50 hour range depending on the model. With all of the various components that have to be fitted and software stuff that can go wrong with making it all work again, it often takes longer for the tech. I can't remember which BMW M model it was but a buddy of mine at our local BMW dealership took a bath on a 43-hour engine R&R for one of those that took him almost two full weeks to do, delays on parts not included.

Thankfully the bulk of my career was working on things like Vettes, Mustangs, etc and there's fast easy ways to do almost everything on those cars, though I can't speak on the C8 since that came after my workshop days.

And then only for warranty work or recalls. I've never known of a dealer that would do the same work for the same price as a non-dealer shop.



If someone wants long term support, they need to look at that before they buy. As an example, Toyota has been dropping 2.7L 4 cylinders in cars/trucks for decades, so they'll be able to work on them. Another option is a vehicle for which you can buy aftermarket parts anywhere, such as a Jeep CJ. If you buy a unicorn, you start with an enthusiast car.

Important to note that while lots of Toyota trucks were built with 2.7L 4 cylinders, the 2RZ-FE 2.7L found in all our old US spec Tacomas and such is long gone, and the 2.7L currently used in the world market Hilux and other applications is a totally different engine, the 2TR-FE.

The biggest issue these days isn't really the hard parts like engine components, but sensors/electronics/PCM/ECU issues. What seems to kill 99% of vehicles these days is a persistent, code-throwing sensor or electronic issue with the emissions or safety systems that prevents it from passing an inspection. The vehicle almost always still runs just fine, it's just a money pit trying to get (or keep) a license plate on it so the owners/customers take the path of least resistance and buy a newer one without any problems.

[fixer]

FORD DEALERS LACK OF SERVICE ON OLDER VEHICLES ?

Since 1997 I have been a customer of the same Ford Dealership in Lugoff SC. When Mr. Redfearn owned it it was a pleasure to deal with. Later management was not as good.

Purchases were:
1997 F350 4x4 crew cab,
2000 Excursion V10 4x4,
2005 Excursion V10 4x4,
2004 Expedition 4x4.
2003 Mustang Cobra.

I still have the Excursions and Expedition. I am very happy with the Excursion V10 4x4s.

Lugoff Ford did 95% of the service on these vehicles.


THE PROBLEM
I had scheduled service on my 2005 Excursion V10 4x4 for: why was the engine service light coming on, an oil/filter change and to see what else it might need.

Jeff from service did not return my call back to his original call so I called him again.
Jeff told me that they were willing to do the oil/filter change but they would not diagnose or repair why the service engine light was coming on.
I find this to be inexcusable.

Dealer used to point to older vehicles that were still in service with pride and proof of the quality of the vehicles. Evidently Lugoff Ford is no longer interested in servicing older vehicles past the oil and filter change level.

I am not sure if this lack of supporting older vehicles is just Lugoff Ford or is company wide.
———
I will use an independent shop for repairs.

I am less likely to want another Ford after this. I just want to keep what I have in good shape.

Any thoughts ?

That is bs.

When I was a tech at a Ford dealer we still fixed trucks with carburetors and points ( and distributors).

And we also worked on all makes and models when it was slow.

[1slow]

Guys thanks.

I got spoiled when Redfearn owned the Ford dealership. Excursion is currently at an independent shop.

There is also a good forum for Ford Excursions and trucks.

My 2005 EX has 155K miles and my 2000 has 190K miles. I like the trucks.

[Mark D]

Maybe one of the dealership techs can answer a couple questions.

Assuming everything at a dealership is done on a book rate, why do they have discretion to discount certain service items if I negotiate with them? And how does my discount effect the rate for the tech?

[Welder]

Maybe one of the dealership techs can answer a couple questions.

Assuming everything at a dealership is done on a book rate, why do they have discretion to discount certain service items if I negotiate with them? And how does my discount effect the rate for the tech?

There are different pricing structures for different customer types, so one answer would be that they're reducing shop rate to a fleet rate or something similar. Unless things have changed, the tech is going to get paid his hourly rate at the flag rate for that job regardless of what deal the shop might have made.

There also used to be a line in the code where the service writer could just enter a misc charge, so effectively the price could be whatever they wanted.

For non-brand vehicles or for certain tough diagnostic situations, the dealership shop can also choose to charge straight time OR pay the tech extra hours which are not billed to the customer.