Originally Posted by MattyD380
P232 Mafia 4life.
P232 Mafia 4life.
I wish people wouldn't be so dismissive about paddle releases and just consider the differences in characteristics. I feel like it's kind of a "baby with the bath water" subject. Paddles, at least as they've been implemented on HKs and Walthers, offer a number of potential benefits. I wouldn't be so quick to push for or laud yet another reduction in choice in the marketplace. Hell, I can actually think of an argument or two for there being a few more current production heel-release options on the market (the horror!), at least for very select situations (e.g. NPE carry).Nothing wrong with personal preferences of course, and I get why people like and prefer buttons as well.
For me, personally, I'm a huge fan of paddles. For carry guns, HK and Walther-style paddles can potentially offer the benefit of reduced likelihood of inadvertently dropping the mag due to pressure from the holster or the gun pressing against your body. The same potential issue of inadvertent mag drops can sometimes be seen with an aggressive support hand grip and larger or extended mag release buttons (one of the reasons I am not a fan of Glock gen4 and gen5 mag releases and much prefer the gen3). A paddle release can also potentially help reduce that.
In terms of using the mag release, one potential benefit is speed, at least for some people with certain hand sizes. For me (I wear on the top end of size L gloves), I find using the paddle with my trigger finger is one of the fastest mag releases I've used on any platform. I have measured that on a shot timer as well, though it's been awhile. Not saying one type of release is necessarily better than another, as I feel like that's probably a bit more of an individual difference based on your experience and preferences. At a minimum, the main difference is the direction of pressure to activate the release; pressing inward (button) vs. pressing down (paddle).
To date, I think my favorite paddle releases are the original gen 1 & 2 P99 and P30 in terms of their size, placement, and ergonomics. The gen 3 P99 release is exceptionally fast, for me at least, though with the significantly increased length it's also much easier to inadvertently drop the mag so I tend to avoid them. Hell, the more I talk about it, the more I just realized I badly need a gen 1 P99 or PPQ M1 with a PDP Compact slide and Acro P-2!
Administrator for PatRogers.org
I wish people wouldn't be so dismissive about paddle releases and just consider the differences in characteristics. I feel like it's kind of a "baby with the bath water" subject. Paddles, at least as they've been implemented on HKs and Walthers, offer a number of potential benefits. I wouldn't be so quick to push for or laud yet another reduction in choice in the marketplace. Hell, I can actually think of an argument or two for there being a few more current production heel-release options on the market (the horror!), at least for very select situations (e.g. NPE carry).
For me, personally, I'm a huge fan of paddles. For carry guns, HK and Walther-style paddles can potentially offer the benefit of reduced likelihood of inadvertently dropping the mag due to pressure from the holster or the gun pressing against your body. The same potential issue of inadvertent mag drops can sometimes be seen with an aggressive support hand grip and larger or extended mag release buttons (one of the reasons I am not a fan of Glock gen4 and gen5 mag releases and much prefer the gen3). A paddle release can also potentially help reduce that.
In terms of using the mag release, one potential benefit is speed, at least for some people with certain hand sizes. For me (I wear on the top end of size L gloves), I find using the paddle with my trigger finger is one of the fastest mag releases I've used on any platform. I have measured that on a shot timer as well, though it's been awhile. Not saying one type of release is necessarily better than another, as I feel like that's probably a bit more of an individual difference based on your experience and preferences. At a minimum, the main difference is the direction of pressure to activate the release; pressing inward (button) vs. pressing down (paddle).
To date, I think my favorite paddle releases are the original gen 1 & 2 P99 and P30 in terms of their size, placement, and ergonomics. The gen 3 P99 release is exceptionally fast, for me at least, though with the significantly increased length it's also much easier to inadvertently drop the mag so I tend to avoid them. Hell, the more I talk about it, the more I just realized I badly need a gen 1 P99 or PPQ M1 with a PDP Compact slide and Acro P-2!
The P30 lever looks like it would be awfully easy to accidently depress. I remember reading a Modern Service Weapons article about issues with the shooter activating the HK45 mag release during recoil. The original USP release seems less likely to be activated but on purpose.
True. I do plan on experimenting with radiusing the P30 release a bit to see if I can get more of it off of or away from the middle finger of the gun hand and index finger of the support hand. To date, I've never had an issue with inadvertently hitting the P30 mag release, but I can definitely feel my fingers touching it at certain angles.
The USP release is certainly less likely to be an issue from the standpoint that it's shorter. The thing I don't particularly like about them is the entire release is mounted under the trigger guard as opposed to the P30 and VP9 release which is mounted from the top. The end result is, your gun hand middle finger is resting directly on the underside of the release, which I feel like is less desirable from an ergonomic standpoint.
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Can you put a USP release on a P30?
When you say less desirable, do you mean just in feel or in likely hood of accidently activating it?
No. The connecting piece between the two lobes is internal on P30 and is external on USP and P2000. Not sure what's more or less desirable. You hand is few mm higher on a gun with P30. That said, no other gun gave me as raging "Glock knuckle" as P30 did when I tried to go really high on a grip, while P2000 was just fine.
I have had a holstered gun drop a mag twice in my life. Both times while sitting in a relatively tight sports seat of a Bimmer and making a turn with a slightly above average G-force while carrying a strong side IWB. Once it was with a 1911. Second time - with a P7M8, in a DelFatti holster I might add.
I have heard and have had concerns about dropping mags with support hand pressure on a button. That disappeared when I started shooting USPSA when every weekend thousands of people run around with extended mag releases and don't drop anything.
My first gun was a P7M8 and I spent 6 years on a LEM P30 with countless classes and went from U to B in USPSA with it. I do have an idea. Three things irritate me about them: that knuckle, an outright dismissal by naysayers, and attribution of unproven benefits mostly by HKPRO crowd. When somebody says that they love HK for engineering and quality but won't have one without a paddle, I can't take that seriously; I guess engineering and quality disappear as soon as they replace a nearly irrelevant design feature.
Blast from the past - P30 light pin failure drill run at Gabe's class. I think it was 1.8,yes, Gabe? @Mr_White, @GJM, @taadski
Last edited by YVK; 06-03-2021 at 11:38 PM.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
It’s a thing. I sold my P30 after a few hundred rounds because I would dump the mag under recoil about every 20 rounds or so. Same thing when I’ve put an extended HK45 mag release on a USPc or P2000. The smaller USP/P2000 nub releases give me no trouble, but any other HK paddle isn’t an option for me.
I have never had any kind of issue with the paddles from P7s all the way to Vp9s. But I HATE, HATE the P30 slide release levers. They are way too easy to depress.
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
If my posts were excessively wordy, maybe you might notice that I tried to qualify a lot of my statements to make it clear nothing I was saying was me making an objective statement of fact but, rather making a statement of subjective and personal preference. Nowhere did I state a button release is inferior, as that's obviously not the case. Also, nowhere did I state I would never buy an HK with a button, or that any with a button mag release were "trash" or anything to that effect. If this new model has a button as the only option, I'm still probably going to buy it because I do enjoy the brand, warts and all, imperfect though they may be.
In terms of HK knuckle, yeah I feel you on that. I definitely get that to a degree. Not terribly so but, it's enough that I have spares to dremel on and experiment with to see if it can be reduced or eliminated. If it ever got to be too problematic for me, then I'll move to another platform.
In terms of the HKPRO crowd, yeah definitely not a part of and can't stand most of that crowd. Too many purists (like irrationally-purist) and people afraid to deal in objective fact. Seems like many of their more knowledgeable members jumped ship awhile back accordingly...
Administrator for PatRogers.org
You didn't. I didn't punctuate or wrote my post well. I quoted you on the mag drop part (btw, you're right, it would be hard to drop mag inadvertently with Walther's paddle because one can barely activate it even on purpose) and then went on a general mini-rant about the whole paddle/button thing that wasn't specifically directed at you. I should've made it clear. Sorry, bud.
Doesn't read posts longer than two paragraphs.
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