Mas Ayoob Is 45 Auto Obsolete?

[Phaedrus]

I remember it used to be that guys would go to 45 if limited to 10rds. That or a smaller 9mm. Has this thought process gone away for most and neutered mag 9mm guns is now the general consensus for wise gun choice even in a ban state?

I've known a few 9mm guys that claim if limited to just 10 rounds you "might as well go with 10 big rounds." Personally I don't necessarily agree. The 9mm is still easier to shoot well and easier to shoot quickly. It recoils a lot less and allows the gun to be smaller. No single stack 1911 in .45 ACP can fit 10 rounds (unless you find one that sticks out the bottom 1/2") so you're still comparing a relatively svelte 10 round 9mm vs a larger .45 ACP. But I guess it would at least give me an excuse to get an HK45!

[TGS]

I don't know if we are having two different conversations here, but I read enough about police shootings that took multiple rounds of high performance 9mm/.40/.45 ammo. I can't imagine those same shootings with .32s or .380s.

I think we're having the same convo. My point is that 32 is fine for most civilian shootings...but it'd probably be fine for most LE shootings as well. The reason we choose ammunition of greater capability is because we want to address those sentinel events where a 32 wouldn't cut it, and so as a community we have established a baseline for reasonable equipment based off of mitigating what things we can control....because we can't control psychological stops.

As a perfect example, this is why the German police finally ditched the 32ACP and moved to 9mm. They finally had a straw that broke the camel's back, and decided to mitigate what factors they could control for sentinel events instead of just running what they had for the last 50 years because "well, it works most of the time, so that should be okay...."

I think what TGS means is that he recognizes that a .380 is far from ideal and that he isn't counting on criminals running away at the sight of it; but the situation limits him to a very small gun.

Exactly.

It's America, you do you, carry a 32, 380, or whatever cockamamie bullshit people on the internet dream up (like the satirical thread recently where someone took it seriously actually tried justifying an NAA mini-revolver).......just be honest about it and the actual reason you're carrying it instead of trying to frame a fantasy-reality around the gun. Such as, "because I'm lazy"....not this "well, because I'm carrying a 32, that means I'll only be shooting at people who will run away...." or the other oft-repeated one, "Well, this is a belly gun, I don't need sights", as if because you're carrying a belly gun that means you'll only be required to make contact shots. Our choice in what we carry doesn't mean that reality will conform to suit our specific choice.

...but at the time the FBI tried to hang the results on the "failure" of a single round of Winchester ammo.

No, they didn't. All of the things that could have been done better that day were addressed by the FBI. What they did regarding the ammunition is see an objective failure and rectify it....the civilian shooting community took that and ran with it, hyper-focusing on it. That doesn't mean everything else the FBI did post-incident did not occur, such as reviewing tactics, techniques and procedures.

Again, another trope that people repeat without any real evidence. Reading your posts is like reading a gun rag.

So while one can't count on a criminal's reluctance to be shot, it would also be obtuse not to acknowledge the frequency that it happens.

There's a difference between recognizing it and planning on it.

In addition, that's about the most concise way I can sum up the entire reason I engaged in this thread.

[newyork]

I've known a few 9mm guys that claim if limited to just 10 rounds you "might as well go with 10 big rounds." Personally I don't necessarily agree. The 9mm is still easier to shoot well and easier to shoot quickly. It recoils a lot less and allows the gun to be smaller. No single stack 1911 in .45 ACP can fit 10 rounds (unless you find one that sticks out the bottom 1/2") so you're still comparing a relatively svelte 10 round 9mm vs a larger .45 ACP. But I guess it would at least give me an excuse to get an HK45!

Wouldn’t mind an HK45 myself.

[Bucky]

I remember it used to be that guys would go to 45 if limited to 10rds. That or a smaller 9mm. Has this thought process gone away for most and neutered mag 9mm guns is now the general consensus for wise gun choice even in a ban state?

I think it partly depends on who’s neutered magazine. If it was Glock model 19, I just assume go back to the model 30. Which by the way, shoots pretty soft in my opinion for a .45.

[newyork]

Me personally, I sold my glocks and already had a VP9 and picked up a 2.0 C M&P. The “if only 10, go to .45” thing is in the back of my head. But if the .45 offers absolutely nothing, and the 9mm neutered mags work, why would you bother with 45 other than to have a fun blaster with more felt recoil

[Stephanie B]

Shoot what you like and what you can.

[Glenn E. Meyer]

What round did they use on the horse?

[JAH 3rd]

Just shoot what you shoot best, obsolete or not. Have a firearm you can stake your life on and ammo that is reliable in that firearm. Practice to keep your skills. And whatever gear you have, make sure it is an asset as opposed to good enough.

[MandoWookie]

What round did they use on the horse?

.45 Colt.

[fatdog]

.45 Colt.

.44-40 from a Merwin-Hulbert, you can tell by the way the gentleman is dressed, only a border ruffian would carry one of those Colt things