Haggard and Weems on Cops Pointing Guns

[Joe in PNG]

One doesn't have to be Ben Crump to see how a video of a police officer with a drawn & concealed gun that gets into a shooting can potentially be spun into a 'trigger happy cop targets & shoots innocent motorist' narrative.

[jnc36rcpd]

If you're going to do behind-the-leg-ready or allow it in agency practice, you need to train for it. As DDTSGM posits, you're doing an arc of shovel presentation or perhaps coming straight up and over the holster. In either case, your hand and gun is traveling further than it would for a presentation from the holster. Moreover, it opens up other issues such as quick presentation of a Taser or OC and protecting a drawn weapon from both your subjects as well as Flex, Dex, and Tex who may pass by and decide to participate in the stop.

Given today's holster technology, you're probably faster and safer just keeping a grip on the holstered and secured pistol.

[jd950]

Worked in the city for years and saw many LEO present their weapons in the Covert Carry Position...gun drawn, pointing down and placed behind the thigh / leg......always thought about this one.....anyone.

A long time ago, in a galaxy far away, I was "taught" this by my first FTO, Norm, who was anxious to retire and devoted most of his efforts to finding ways to have decent stats with as little actual work as possible. Not a technique taught in the academy but I had seen it somewhere, probably on TV. I think it was called bootleg or bootstrap. I did it it once or twice, because Norm wanted me to, then concluded it was just too stupid. What if I slip on ice, mud or gravel and fall, or have to go hands on, or have to chase the guy and first have to holster? And it isn't really much/any faster than drawing from a decent holster, like the new-tech thumbreak I was using then. Norm retired and moved to a double wide Las Vegas and I never used that technique again.

It was dumb then and worse now.

[Hambo]

I saw some old timers (and newer guys) doing the gun behind the leg thing on traffic stops.

I always figured that if I felt the need to approach a car on a traffic stop with my gun drawn, then I probably shouldn’t be approaching the car.

Yeah, I seem to recall being told that if you stay behind your lights and do a felony stop the right way, it's very unlikely that you'll get shot. Or you can walk up to the car and get in a gunfight in which you'll have to simultaneously shoot on the move, operate a light, and hopefully call for the help you should have had there in the first place.

On topic, just watch police videos and you can see all forms of bad/dangerous/illegal gun handling. It's amazing how little bad actually happens given the horrendous tactics and gun handling. That, of course, reinforces the idea that what they're doing is OK. Command staff shouldn't be able to sleep at night for worry of litigation, but they're not watching and they don't know any better anyway.

[Dog Face Gremlin]

Great to hear, very happy for you.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors of telling LE how we're doing our job wrong based on your extensive experience of, "I worked in a city and saw cops do this". If only we had more heros like you.

Wow.....some outburst....initially I only asked a question for clarification not to be nailed to a board or something and didn't "suggest" anything either.....wound a little tight....huh....omo.

[DDTSGM]

Worked in the city for years and saw many LEO present their weapons in the Covert Carry Position...gun drawn, pointing down and placed behind the thigh / leg......always thought about this one.....anyone.

It seemed to me to make sense behind the thigh / leg....I figured he could always re-holster the gun, no harm to foul.......saw It done many times on the street.

...and I was always told..."a bird in the hand".

Great to hear, very happy for you.

I wish you the best of luck in your endeavors of telling LE how we're doing our job wrong based on your extensive experience of, "I worked in a city and saw cops do this". If only we had more heros like you.

Wow.....some outburst....initially I only asked a question for clarification not to be nailed to a board or something and didn't "suggest" anything either.....wound a little tight....huh....omo.

I think thou doth protest too hard.

[jlw]

Carrying it behind the leg is slower than hand on a holstered pistol. Ive tested it.

[Mas]

Not to mention that if you're holding your handgun behind your thigh with your attention forward, anyone sneaking up behind you will likely be able to snatch it from you before you can reach.

[jd950]

Not to mention that if you're holding your handgun behind your thigh with your attention forward, anyone sneaking up behind you will likely be able to snatch it from you before you can reach.

And, just to pile on...by statute in my jurisdiction, removing a firearm from the holster is a mandatory use of force report. And holding my gun down behind my butt or my leg for some reason would not be well received.

There is no upside.

Sorry about that, Norm

[PNWTO]

And, just to pile on...by statute in my jurisdiction, removing a firearm from the holster is a mandatory use of force report. And holding my gun down behind my butt or my leg for some reason would not be well received.

Not LE but I sent this thread to a friend. He basically said the same thing. “If I’m going to have to do a report anyway I’m getting the rifle.”

He also echoed @TC215- “If I feel like a I need my pistol on a stop then I’m getting on the radio and then getting into cover with my rifle.”


Also a very colorful quip about his chain of command having a mass aneurysm if they ever saw that kind of thing on dash/vest cameras.