Group suggesting reintroduction of Jaguars into SouthWest US

[OlongJohnson]

One jaguar would probably help the deer overcrowding where @Borderland lives.

It would certainly help in east and central Texas, where even long deer seasons cannot control the white-tail populations.

The island to the north of the one with the deer problem is much easier to get to from the mainland. It has mountain lions on it and the deer are reasonably under control. Still plenty of them, but not out of control.

In Salado, TX, they stopped allowing bow hunting in town, so the deer just hang out in town. Full herds just bedded down and munching in peoples' yards. The place is overrun with them. Apparently, they're smarter than the local ruling class.

[RevolverRob]

The island to the north of the one with the deer problem is much easier to get to from the mainland. It has mountain lions on it and the deer are reasonably under control. Still plenty of them, but not out of control.

In Salado, TX, they stopped allowing bow hunting in town, so the deer just hang out in town. Full herds just bedded down and munching in peoples' yards. The place is overrun with them. Apparently, they're smarter than the local ruling class.

I bet jaguars don't give a shit about bow hunting regulations or city limits.

Seems like an easy solution.

[Default.mp3]

Um, what?!

They never left. There are just as many jaguars here in the mountains of southern Arizona as want to be here. We had a dominant male for ~10 years that spent most of his time here and only travelled south for mating season. He would kill and consume adult bears, deer, javelina, and pretty much anything he wanted, and didn’t let other jaguars come around. Last time I checked the discussions and websites about border jaguars, there were 4 or 5 hanging around in the Huachucas, Santa Ritas, Dragoons, and so forth. Hunting or shooting them is super bad plus illegal, so unless those folks are talking about grabbing some adult cats from somewhere and setting them loose here (how are they going to make them stay vs run back home?), what more do they want to do to “reintroduce” a species that’s already here?!

When did you last check? AFAIK, in the past decade, there's only been 3 active jaguars in AZ, with only two seen with any regularity, and one of them, Yo'oko, was killed a few years ago. El Jefe is still spotted from time to time, but its rare enough that when they caught him on camera a few months back that it made the local news. There's no breeding population, with no females seen in the USA for decades.

[Borderland]

When did you last check? AFAIK, in the past decade, there's only been 3 active jaguars in AZ, with only two seen with any regularity, and one of them, Yo'oko, was killed a few years ago. El Jefe is still spotted from time to time, but its rare enough that when they caught him on camera a few months back that it made the local news. There's no breeding population, with no females seen in the USA for decades.

Lots of critters being reintroduced in AZ. When I was on the Empire ranch (Las Cienega's) a few years ago there was a herd of antelope recently reintroduced there. You probably know about that.

[Borderland]

What herds of starving deer?!

As @RevolverRob said, we have very healthy numbers of lions already, in addition to human hunters, so the deer herds aren’t eating themselves out of house and home and don’t need more thinning.

You don't think the drought isn't going to kill a bunch of deer? No rain, no food.


https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact...20metro%20area.

[Duelist]

You don't think the drought isn't going to kill a bunch of deer? No rain, no food.


https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact...20metro%20area.

Probably not.

[Borderland]

Any E-types included?

Almost extinct now also.

[Borderland]

What herds of starving deer?!

As @RevolverRob said, we have very healthy numbers of lions already, in addition to human hunters, so the deer herds aren’t eating themselves out of house and home and don’t need more thinning.

You think the drought isn't going to kill a bunch of deer?


https://www.abc15.com/weather/impact...20metro%20area.

[RevolverRob]

When did you last check? AFAIK, in the past decade, there's only been 3 active jaguars in AZ, with only two seen with any regularity, and one of them, Yo'oko, was killed a few years ago. El Jefe is still spotted from time to time, but its rare enough that when they caught him on camera a few months back that it made the local news. There's no breeding population, with no females seen in the USA for decades.

So the question is:

Were they hunted to near extirpation or can the region not actually sustain a breeding population?

Without a clear answer, reintroduction efforts should be held until there is a clear answer. Don't get me wrong, the conservation group in question may well have a good, clear, answer. I don't follow these particular efforts, so I can't say.

If it is the former and there is good reason to believe that their populations can be sustained, then I think cautious reintroduction could be beneficial. Both for the ecosystem and for the endangered jaguar.

But a lot of times, people just want to 'return' to some point where they (usually mistakenly) believe that there were more X, Y, Zs, before humans.

[Shotgun]

He would kill and consume adult bears

I doubted that statement, but here is an article discussing, in part, just that.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/scien...uar-180960443/

"Removing the bear skull from its zip-lock bag, he shows it to Neils, an expert on black bears from her years studying them in Florida. “This was a young adult female about 230 pounds,” she says. Bugbee then removes the suspected jaguar scat, spritzes it with water, and reseals it in the plastic bag. He waits for an hour and then hides the moistened scat among the cactuses in the front yard. Then he fetches Mayke from her kennel and gives her the command, “Find the scat! Find the scat!”

Mayke systematically searches the yard, zigzagging back and forth with her nose to the ground, until a breeze gets up and wafts the scent toward her. She trots directly to the scat, sniffs it, sits down, looks at Bugbee and barks twice.

“It’s jaguar!” exclaims Neils. The hairs in the scat are later confirmed in the lab as black bear. This is the first recorded predation by a jaguar on a black bear, and as Neils points out, it occurred where the northern limit of the jaguar’s range reached the southern limit of the black bear’s range. “It was north against south, and south won.”"