Current state of the 1911 industry?

[David S.]

Joe Chambers at Chambers Customs has recently started doing "mathematical reviews" of single stack and double stack 1911s on his Patreon channel "1911 University." In his reviews, he compares a several measurements and tolerances to what he uses on his builds. For instance slide to frame fit, bushing fit, vertical impact surface, barrel leg fit, extractor, etc.

I'll be keeping an eye on these for a while before I dive into the 1911 world. He's done a couple reviews of $3k+ custom shop guns with an unimpressive fit and drop-in or barely massaged parts that you'd expect in a $1k to $1500 semi custom. He's quick to point out that these are reviews of single guns, so it's anecdotal and not indicative of the company or line as a whole.

A couple examples that he put on his public YT page:



One of his own guns that came back after 30k rounds.


If you want another deep dive, I suggest the P&S Two World Wars episode. (It's also available in podcast form. I don't think you loose much by not watching it)



I definitely recall they like the Ruger in the $1000 price point and Dan Wesson in the sub $2000. I'm seem to recall Nighthawk was preferred in the $3000 point and, of course, Chambers at the $4k+ range.

[rob_s]

One let peeve of mine in the 1911 world has been the way the word “custom” gets misused.

If the pistol you buy has a model name, it’s not “custom” IMO. It may be “hand fit” or “high end production” or whatever but it ain’t custom.

[JAD]

In summary I guess the WC ACP is considered a “custom quality” pistol and the Dan Wesson is considered a “semi custom” pistol and that is the accepted difference in price. Or the Wilson products are considered higher quality across the board?.

I have both and for example just ran a CQB Commander and a DW CCO side by side at Gunsite.

DW guns are good to go. Expect few problems (e.g., both of the 4” guns I’ve gotten from them shot high, the thumb safety on the earlier one needed some bevel added to the shield, etc) but they run and are well built. The $700 extra for a DW versus a Range Officer or Ruger gets you an appreciable difference in build quality and out of the gate reliability and that makes it an easy recommend for a person who wants to spend the minimum amount of money without having to seriously monkey with the gun.

Wilsons are not custom. You can’t get the gun you want unless it’s exactly how they make it, and the fit comparison between a Wilson and a Garthwaite, Morrison, or Burton pistol is not fair. They’re exceptionally nice factory guns. I have no problem with them charging 2x DW, but besides a tangible difference in fit I don’t think you get a lot of concrete benefits. I still spend a lot of time on their web site.

Custom pistols are another level, and another 2x in price for a good example. They are also worth it. I have a couple and one on the way. I enjoy them that much more. Again you won’t get much in the way of tangible benefits — except that the gun will be as well built as is humanly possible, and it will be exactly precisely your gun.

[TC215]

Any input on Les Baer?

Neither one of my Baers ran, and Les is an absolute dickhead.

[TC215]

How about Ed Brown?

I had a Special Forces model years ago. I believe it was their answer to the then-still-newish Wilson CQB?
https://www.edbrown.com/product/bo-18-special-forces/

IIRC it was also, like the CQB, about $1k less at that time…

I really liked the one Ed Brown I’ve had. Now they’ve gone from making fairly traditional-looking 1911’s to guns with the crazy cuts in the slides. I have no idea if the quality now is as good as the older guns.

One of the biggest Ed Brown dealers in the country told me to steer clear of their guns in 9mm (this was before their new EVO 9mm).

[HCM]

Any input on Les Baer?

If you want one, buy used and stick to 5” guns.

I’ve owned three of them, a Comanche and two 5” guns. Still have the two 5” guns however all 3 are/were older guns made in the 90s. Both of my 5” guns run well.

The current production guns do not seem as well fitted and have sharp edges not found on the older guns. The grip on the LB frames are slightly larger from to back. For my hands that is a good thing but YMMV. Some makers of fancy grips offer “Baer width” grips. You can install any 1911 grips but they appear undersized on the Baer. It drives the people who clock grip screws crazy.

I’ll echo the advice to avoid the Comanche and Stinger models due to the reduced slide travel resulting from the use of cut down Government frames.

Les Bears used to be the “sweet spot” of a quality gun at a more reasonable price than Wilson/Nighthawk. Baer has raised prices to Wilson/Nighthawk levels even as quality has declined.

Dan Wesson took over that “sweet spot” in the last 10 years. We’ll see if they keep it with the changes @TC215 mentioned earlier..

[HCM]

Joe Chambers at Chambers Customs has recently started doing "mathematical reviews" of single stack and double stack 1911s on his Patreon channel "1911 University." In his reviews, he compares a several measurements and tolerances to what he uses on his builds. For instance slide to frame fit, bushing fit, vertical impact surface, barrel leg fit, extractor, etc.

I'll be keeping an eye on these for a while before I dive into the 1911 world. He's done a couple reviews of $3k+ custom shop guns with an unimpressive fit and drop-in or barely massaged parts that you'd expect in a $1k to $1500 semi custom. He's quick to point out that these are reviews of single guns, so it's anecdotal and not indicative of the company or line as a whole.

A couple examples that he put on his public YT page:



One of his own guns that came back after 30k rounds.


If you want another deep dive, I suggest the P&S Two World Wars episode. (It's also available in podcast form. I don't think you loose much by not watching it)



I definitely recall they like the Ruger in the $1000 price point and Dan Wesson in the sub $2000. I'm seem to recall Nighthawk was preferred in the $3000 point and, of course, Chambers at the $4k+ range.

One thing worth noting from the “two world wars” is Chambers mention of the RIA /Philippines 1911s. In summary if you want a 5” 1911 in 45 or 38 Super for range use, and you will only feed it/expect it to feed with FMJ the RIA/PI guns will generally run.

[Dave Williams]

I have both and for example just ran a CQB Commander and a DW CCO side by side at Gunsite.

How'd you like Gunsite? I was just out there, I loved it. Ran my Nighthawk that I carry that costs 10X as much as a Glock 17 and carries half the ammo LOL!

Nighthawks are great guns.

Here's a video of me running the Dozier Drill at Gunsite in March:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5Yw8-TWThwI

[JSGlock34]

During the last 10 minutes of his Ballistic Radio interview, Jason Burton of Heirloom Precision gives his thoughts on 1911s at various price points. Well worth the listen. He has good things to say about Wilson Combat and SACS guns.

Ballistic Radio: TWO World Wars!

[rob_s]

How about Ed Brown?

I had a Special Forces model years ago. I believe it was their answer to the then-still-newish Wilson CQB?
https://www.edbrown.com/product/bo-18-special-forces/

IIRC it was also, like the CQB, about $1k less at that time…

I really liked the one Ed Brown I’ve had. Now they’ve gone from making fairly traditional-looking 1911’s to guns with the crazy cuts in the slides. I have no idea if the quality now is as good as the older guns.

One of the biggest Ed Brown dealers in the country told me to steer clear of their guns in 9mm (this was before their new EVO 9mm).

It does appear that the Special Forces has avoided the “pimp mah gun” treatment.

Sadly, it seems that’s the direction that Wilson is going as well.