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Thread: Paging Outpost75: 38 vs. 357 Revolver

  1. #1

    Paging Outpost75: 38 vs. 357 Revolver

    Question for @Outpost75:

    I’m currently out of a 38 or 357 revolver and the full-charge wadcutter thread is calling me to reconsider that.

    I’ve got good 22s, Glocks for carry, and good revolvers for game over about 20 pounds, so my uses would be marksmanship development, new shooter training, hunting small game, and in a distant fourth place, carry/self/home defense. I also handload.

    I feel like all of this could be done with a K-frame 38 Special loaded with ammo between target wadcutters and the FBI load. But my preference has always been for the 357 because one revolver can shoot both cartridges. Given the pandemic weirdness and the election-year scarcities that have become the norm, I’m not sure that I should change that stance.

    Based on the full-charge wadcutter thread, it seems wise to stick to 357 cases in 357 revolvers, which is not a problem. At the same time, everything about the 38 Special cartridges and the revolvers in which it’s chambered makes a LOT of sense.

    What are your thoughts?

    Thanks,


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  2. #2
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    .38 Vs. .357 Revolver

    I don't care for the current production S&W revolvers and all of mine are pre-1980. I also have older Colts pre-1970 and my Rugers are all pre-2000.

    My general feeling is that an old gun which works, is worth more to me than a new one which doesn't. I see too many quality issues with current product to get very excited about many of them. Some new Rugers I have recently seen would have never left the factory when I was QA manager in the 1980s. They fix them OK, but you shouldn't have to return a new gun to the factory to fix it.

    The only "new" handguns I have bought recently have been Pietta and Uberti single-actions from Cimmarron. While it takes some tinkering to get the sights on, and to adjust the actions, they are classics which have character. The workmanship on the current crop of Italian single-action is superior to my pre-WW1 Colts.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I don't care for the current production S&W revolvers and all of mine are pre-1980. I also have older Colts pre-1970 and my Rugers are all pre-2000.

    My general feeling is that an old gun which works, is worth more to me than a new one which doesn't. I see too many quality issues with current product to get very excited about many of them. Some new Rugers I have recently seen would have never left the factory when I was QA manager in the 1980s. They fix them OK, but you shouldn't have to return a new gun to the factory to fix it.

    The only "new" handguns I have bought recently have been Pietta and Uberti single-actions from Cimmarron. While it takes some tinkering to get the sights on, and to adjust the actions, they are classics which have character. The workmanship on the current crop of Italian single-action is superior to my pre-WW1 Colts.
    Agree 100%, but I'm trying to choose between a Model 66 and a Model 67. What are your thoughts on the two cartridges? I'd stick to 158-grain and heavier bullets in the 357 Magnum due to forcing cone issues.

    thanks,


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  4. #4
    Site Supporter Totem Polar's Avatar
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    Not outpost, but I do have some experience with revolvers. All else being equal, I have a slight preference for .38 in .38 chambered guns, but all else is never equal from gun-to-gun. A nice example of a 66 works for me. Speaking of which, you are always welcome to try mine out.
    ”But in the end all of these ideas just manufacture new criminals when the problem isn't a lack of criminals.” -JRB

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Totem Polar View Post
    Not outpost, but I do have some experience with revolvers. All else being equal, I have a slight preference for .38 in .38 chambered guns, but all else is never equal from gun-to-gun. A nice example of a 66 works for me. Speaking of which, you are always welcome to try mine out.
    I'm definitely leaning more toward a 38 than a 357, but the swirl remains strong at this point.

    And I may take you up on that offer.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Agree 100%, but I'm trying to choose between a Model 66 and a Model 67. What are your thoughts on the two cartridges? I'd stick to 158-grain and heavier bullets in the 357 Magnum due to forcing cone issues.

    thanks,


    Okie John
    I shoot more .38 Specials than .357s, and if a +P handload in .38 Special isn't up to the job, I usually skip the .357 and go to something bigger. The exception to that practice is when traveling if limited to a handgun... My usual EDC is a K-frame .38 Special, but if a second gun is going along and there isn't room for a rifle, a 4-inch .357 Ruger Service Six or S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman go along.

    The 66 and 67 are both viable choices IF you don't intend to shoot a high volume of .357 Magnum ammunition through them, as they are not durable.

    I'm unable to attach the US Border Patrol test evaluations of the S&W 66 and 67 Vs. Ruger Security Six, Speed Six, due to file sizes, but if you want to PM me with an email address which can accept about 10MB in .pdf attachments these can be freely distributed.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I shoot more .38 Specials than .357s, and if a +P handload in .38 Special isn't up to the job, I usually skip the .357 and go to something bigger. The exception to that practice is when traveling if limited to a handgun... My usual EDC is a K-frame .38 Special, but if a second gun is going along and there isn't room for a rifle, a 4-inch .357 Ruger Service Six or S&W Model 28 Highway Patrolman go along.

    The 66 and 67 are both viable choices IF you don't intend to shoot a high volume of .357 Magnum ammunition through them, as they are not durable.

    I'm unable to attach the US Border Patrol test evaluations of the S&W 66 and 67 Vs. Ruger Security Six, Speed Six, due to file sizes, but if you want to PM me with an email address which can accept about 10MB in .pdf attachments these can be freely distributed.
    Done.

    And thank you for your generosity.


    John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  8. #8
    Since you handload consider this. If you also cast bullets a Lyman 357156 gas check mold gives a handloader some unique options. Bullet casting isn't hard and can be started up without breaking the bank. But this mold has two crimp grooves. The first is for seating long in .38 brass and can only be chambered in .357 chambers and was intended for loading ".38/.44 type" loads in large frame .357M guns. The second is for seating in .357 brass and gives a standard SWC loading.

    My thinking is that seating this bullet in .38 brass would be more accurate in the .357 chamber due to the less length to travel to the throat and forcing cone. I have this mold but have always used it for full house magnum loadings and I still have to develop some .38 loads with it. It's on the list but life has not relented in being in the way of my progress.

    Just a thought since you prefer .357 guns...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan1980 View Post
    Since you handload consider this. If you also cast bullets a Lyman 357156 gas check mold gives a handloader some unique options. Bullet casting isn't hard and can be started up without breaking the bank. But this mold has two crimp grooves. The first is for seating long in .38 brass and can only be chambered in .357 chambers and was intended for loading ".38/.44 type" loads in large frame .357M guns. The second is for seating in .357 brass and gives a standard SWC loading.

    My thinking is that seating this bullet in .38 brass would be more accurate in the .357 chamber due to the less length to travel to the throat and forcing cone. I have this mold but have always used it for full house magnum loadings and I still have to develop some .38 loads with it. It's on the list but life has not relented in being in the way of my progress.

    Just a thought since you prefer .357 guns...
    My issue with casting isn't money, it's time. I went down that rabbit hole back before Veral Smith went to prison, and I learned that I don't have time to cast, shoot, and reload, so I decided to stick with shooting and reloading.

    I remember Skeeter Skelton talking about the Thompson dual-groove bullet in the 357 back in the day. Montana Bullet Works offers it, and I could get some from them if I go that route. I've also tried a Veral Smith dual-groove design in a couple of 5-shot 45 Colts. They definitely solve several problems.


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    ...I'm trying to choose between a Model 66 and a Model 67...
    The 67 is going to be lighter for lack of the underlug if you plan to clock any miles. It can also, at least occasinally, handle loads that are knocking on midrange magnum's door:

    https://www.buffalobore.com/index.ph...t_detail&p=291

    I'd personally take the 67 over the 66 since it's already not that much easier to carry than a 28 and, if gong magnum, I'd as soon step up to a more appropriate frame size. If you're packing for small game, might as well save some ounces and the 67 is less popular so you are more likely to find a good deal. Especially since there is not reason other than flatter trajectory to put up with the much increased muzzle blast to choose .357 over .38 for little furbearers.

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