Medium Power Variables on general use AR's

[pastaslinger]

My hope for this thread is to discuss what has become my favorite setup, a medium power variable with an offset red dot. I have switched my primary carbine, which is a BCM 16" ELW BFH upper on a built out lower, to this setup. For this setup I run an older SWFA SS 3-9X FFP scope- impressive Japanese made glass for the $500 price point, and the weight is around many SFP LPVOs. The reticle is great but it unfortunately is not illuminated. The whole setup remains impressively light and I have made very easy consistent hits out to 600 yards with this scope on AR's. The range of magnification with the fairly generous eyebox is great from 50 yards on out, and is usable up to 25 yards. Anything inside of 50 yards I would rather use the offset dot which is a Holosun 503 series sight on an Arisaka mount.

I'm working on making additional setups like this and am on the lookout for sales on either a Vortex Viper PST gen II 2-10x or the Nightforce 2.5-10x. One caveat is that you do need a little extra eyebox to use this type of scope as I'm intending, which is going for unsupported distance shots. I recently acquired a Viper PST II 3-15x and while it is overall a very impressive scope for the price I paid, the eyebox is pretty tight. One more point, the SWFA scope has fixed parallax which bothered me at first but now I consider it a blessing of simplicity for something you'll mostly use up to 300 or 400 yards.

Has anyone made a similar switch away from solely red dots or LPVOs? If so, what setup are you running?

[shane45]

Generally speaking I reserve this kind of setup for 308's that have sufficient energy at longer ranges. I have a 1.8-10 on one and a 1-8 on another. I dont have a dot on the 1-8 as it has this at 1x.

[Nephrology]

Has anyone made a similar switch away from solely red dots or LPVOs? If so, what setup are you running?

Yes and frankly I was disappointed at my options for scopes.

I detailed this in the LPVO thread but I was looking for a 2-10ish FFP scope with a decent illuminated reticle <24oz of weight. I came down to basically two options in the $1k or less range: the Trijicon Credo 2-10x36 and the Primary arms GLx 2.5-10x40 something. I went with the Credo because it wasn't much more money and they are LOW made optics vs the Phillipines made GLx glass. That said, vs the 3-15 range or the 1-6/8 range of optics, there are very slim pickings for the kind of glass I wanted without spending well, well over $1k.

Here's a not great photo of my rifle. Happy with the mount and red dot, feel like the market could've provided a much better lightweight scope for this applciation. YMMV

[pastaslinger]

Yes and frankly I was disappointed at my options for scopes.

I detailed this in the LPVO thread but I was looking for a 2-10ish FFP scope with a decent illuminated reticle <24oz of weight. I came down to basically two options in the $1k or less range: the Trijicon Credo 2-10x36 and the Primary arms GLx 2.5-10x40 something. I went with the Credo because it wasn't much more money and they are LOW made optics vs the Phillipines made GLx glass. That said, vs the 3-15 range or the 1-6/8 range of optics, there are very slim pickings for the kind of glass I wanted without spending well, well over $1k.

Here's a not great photo of my rifle. Happy with the mount and red dot, feel like the market could've provided a much better lightweight scope for this applciation. YMMV

I think the old answer was always a Nightforce but I am hoping more options become available over time.

I'm curious about what disappointed you with the Trijicon though

[Phaedrus]

My general purpose AR wears a Nikon 3x9. Just a $200 scope but fine for what I use it for. My other carbines are set up with Aimpoints.

[littlejerry]

I still use an NXS 2.5-10x32 Mil Dot on my main 16" AR. My only real complaint is the reticle. It's clean and simple which is ideal for a GP rifle, but I do wish it had half mil marks for when you are trying to make wind calls on small targets.

I haven't seen anything else close to the weight of the NXS 2.5-10 so I'm not interested in replacing it.

[Nephrology]

I think the old answer was always a Nightforce but I am hoping more options become available over time.

I'm curious about what disappointed you with the Trijicon though

The Trijicon just feels like they got 80% of the way and stopped. The reticle I find is a little too fine for use below 4-5x, and so instead you end using the two horizontal and single vertical stadia. there are about 25 MRAD between the horizontal stadia, which is a fairly coarse sight picture. It works OK, I just feel they could've optimized the reticle design a bit more for the lower range mag.

Also really wish they had done 10 mil/rev for their turrents. No idea why they settled on 8 mil/rev.

Similarly, the objective at 36mm feels just a bit small... the GLx has a 40mm objective IIRC and comes in at the same weight just about.

Finally, I feel like the scope would benefit from parallax adjustment knob (parallax is fixed at 100yd iirc). The GLx has one for the same magnification range. Given that I can easily take the rifle out to 600yd or farther with heavy bullets and altitude on my side, it's a little frustrating they didn't include a parallax knob.

It's still the best option out there for $1k or less, though. I wouldn't take my purchase back at all. Also I'm pretty happy with the Arisaka mount and the Holosun, though I am thinking of replacing the 503c with a 507k. A slimmer MRDS seems like it would be less in the way.

[TWR]

I went the other way. I started out with a 3.5-10 Leupold scope and kept that power range just tried the few available reticles. Mil dot, Boone and a Crocket and duplex were all I tried and I tried M1 knobs for dialing. Ran these setups for years hunting coyotes and critters. Then realized I never really used the high end except for very few longer shots.

Started with LPVO’s and evolved to the Trijicon Accupower 1-4 which I have on a couple of guns now. I did try the 3-9 Super Chicken from SWFA and it’s without a doubt the best 3-9 out there for a do it all scope. It was just that other than shooting plates at range, I didn’t use the dials or the extra power. And for the 223/556, I am less than impressed with that round past 500 yards. For that distance my 1-4’s work well enough but truth be told, I limit my hunting shots to 400 yards while 99% of my shots are under 100. Note that my AR’s are all carbines built as light as reasonably possible. In fact all my bolt guns but one are Kimber Montana’s. One is a 223 with a 2.5-8 Leupold, one is a 204 with a 3.5-10 and my long range gun is a 22-250AI wearing the 3-9 Super Chicken. The only heavy gun I have is an 18” SPR Bergara in 6.5 CM wearing a fixed 10x Super Chicken for the adjustable parallax and it only gets shot on my steel range.

I did try an offset red dot recently and I just can’t get used to it. So for now I’m thinking the LPVO is about perfect for me. I can remember to aim high easier than hunting a red dot while twisting my rifle. I didn’t put enough time trying the offset dot and may revisit the idea again but for now I’m good.

[David S.]

FWIW, I think there was some similar discussion in this thread.

[littlejerry]

The most interesting scope I've seen released in this category category recently is the Athlon Helos Gen2 2-12
https://athlonoptics.com/product/hel...x42-dmr-scope/

I just wish it weighed 6oz less.