Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: New directives for less lethal, LAPD

  1. #1
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    The Keystone State

    New directives for less lethal, LAPD

    After reading the limitations on the use of non/less lethal, including the areas to be targeted, ordered by Judge Consuelo B. Marshall, it occurred to me that it would be impossible to be within those limits.


    Are you kidding me?



    https://www.policemag.com/606723/jud...demonstrations
    "We are the domestic pets of a human zoo we call civilization."

    Laurence Gonzales - "Deep Survival."

  2. #2
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Behind the Photonic Curtain
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  3. #3
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Madison, Wisconsin
    People with normal life experiences have no idea how dynamic and rapid confrontations are, and they don't know what they don't know.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by 11B10 View Post
    After reading the limitations on the use of non/less lethal, including the areas to be targeted, ordered by Judge Consuelo B. Marshall, it occurred to me that it would be impossible to be within those limits.


    Are you kidding me?



    https://www.policemag.com/606723/jud...demonstrations
    Apparently, the judge/clerk writing the injunction knows the different usages of the 37mm and 40mm launchers and their employment by LAPD.

    Much of the language mirrors the LAPD policy.

    Not a fan of the LAPD centerline/belt buckle targeting point as I feel it can be more dangerous than the red-yellow-green schemes.

  5. #5
    Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2016
    Location
    SF Bay Ahea
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Lehr View Post
    Apparently, the judge/clerk writing the injunction knows the different usages of the 37mm and 40mm launchers and their employment by LAPD.

    Much of the language mirrors the LAPD policy.

    Not a fan of the LAPD centerline/belt buckle targeting point as I feel it can be more dangerous than the red-yellow-green schemes.
    The judge did not write the order. The attorneys for BLM wrote the order. This is not a surprise as Judge Spiro has issued similar orders for Oakland PD. There is plenty of video of bad uses of force with 40mm by officers in the initial George Floyd riots last summer here in the SF Bay Area. Shooting a pastor in the testicle from 10' so that it ruptures and requires surgery for holding a BLM sign, refusing to move and demanding to be arrested is fucking stupid and probably criminal. I am the last guy to avoid using force, but shooting people with 40mm rounds because you're tired, angry and they fail the respect my authoritay test is a fail, especially when it's being videoed. Did I mention the pastor was the liaison between the Department and his particular community? The dude wanted to have his John Lewis at Selma moment and cops took the bait.

    Notably, the Chief who should have been held accountable for hiring, training and deploying the officers who failed so miserably in this situation, retired and moved on to another, large PD. Failing upward is profitable.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by paherne View Post
    The judge did not write the order. The attorneys for BLM wrote the order. This is not a surprise as Judge Spiro has issued similar orders for Oakland PD. There is plenty of video of bad uses of force with 40mm by officers in the initial George Floyd riots last summer here in the SF Bay Area. Shooting a pastor in the testicle from 10' so that it ruptures and requires surgery for holding a BLM sign, refusing to move and demanding to be arrested is fucking stupid and probably criminal. I am the last guy to avoid using force, but shooting people with 40mm rounds because you're tired, angry and they fail the respect my authoritay test is a fail, especially when it's being videoed. Did I mention the pastor was the liaison between the Department and his particular community? The dude wanted to have his John Lewis at Selma moment and cops took the bait.

    Notably, the Chief who should have been held accountable for hiring, training and deploying the officers who failed so miserably in this situation, retired and moved on to another, large PD. Failing upward is profitable.
    I'm not going to disagree with this one iota......shooting people with 40mm rounds because you're tired, angry and they fail the respect my authoritay test is a fail

    Less-lethal, across the spectrum, saves far more lives than they take with improper, unethical usage. That statement is in no way, shape, or form intended to condone unethical usage.

    I remarked that the judge/clerk knew how LAPD used LL because the injunction addressed the different uses of 40mm and 37mm by LAPD.

  7. #7
    Member KellyinAvon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2019
    Location
    Indiana
    Non-LEO with a non-LEO question: is the difference in procedural guidance between 37mm and 40mm driven by something other than performance of the different rounds?

    I also have no experience being shot with either round. Avoiding riots could be why.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by KellyinAvon View Post
    Non-LEO with a non-LEO question: is the difference in procedural guidance between 37mm and 40mm driven by something other than performance of the different rounds?

    I also have no experience being shot with either round. Avoiding riots could be why.
    I'm not sure what LAPD is carrying in their patrol units, but in most agencies that have upgraded from 12ga less-lethal on patrol, the 40mm seems to be the choice.

    The 37mm launchers have been around forever and have been widely used in crowd control and barricaded subject situations to deliver agents.

    As I mentioned earlier, my ass-u-me-ption is that the injunction differentiated between the systems based on LAPD's usage.

    37mm are generally smooth-bore; 40mm is generally rifled.

  9. #9
    Site Supporter Coyotesfan97's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Phoenix Metro, AZ
    When I was a SAGE gun instructor they were 37mm and rifled. IIRC SAGE offers 37 and 40mm launchers along with munitions. At the time LASD had ARWEN rifled 37mm shooting the same rounds SAGE guns did. I think they still have them.
    Just a dog chauffeur that used to hold the dumb end of the leash.

  10. #10
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Maryland
    The last issue of NTOA's "Tactical Edge" had a pretty insightful article by Travis Norton of Oceanside (CA) PD on last year's riot season. He pointed out training and equipment issues with officers with standard (for most agencies) less lethal training then trying to deploy a less-lethal rounds in a crowded environment with rioters mingled with "peaceful protesters". He also remarked on the inconsistent flight patterns of some less-lethal rounds which can be exacerbated by imperfect transport and storage.

    But, ya know, a few more hours of implicit bias and descalation training will correct these problems.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •