Mass. school bus driver arrested after students find gun on seat

[ST911]

Genuine discussion, not being argumentative...

I sure would like to see that bus, because it sure doesn't jibe with any 63-student grade school run I've been on.

Have you CCW'ed on a school bus, either daily pick-up/drop-off route or team/field trip transport? How did it differ from any other crowded environment? Fundamentals of actual concealment (clandestine carry), situational awareness, and using quality gear are pretty universal.

Aside from the fact that there's not a lot of a point to it. The fuck're you going to do, pop the service door and shoot out of it? It's a 30,000+ pound vehicle, the service door closes with 90-120 psi of air pressure unless you're on some old manual-open piece-of-shit.

Where done/trained with drivers or monitors, it's more about security at the individual stop(s), ultimate destination, or a mid-route disable of some sort.

Your best bet of all the kids living is to drive out of whatever you're in, and over it if it doesn't get out of the way.

I agree.

[Joe in PNG]

If the state and school law is "don't carry a gun on school grounds", and if a school bus is considered school grounds, then the person who does so should suffer the consequences of his actions by willingly breaking the law.

Trying to defend his actions is foolish and doesn't help things.

[Wise_A]

The difference is that you're

(a) surrounded by kids, who are extremely grabby
(b) regularly forced to bend/stretch/etc
(c) responsible for the bus, which means your attention needs to be focused on driving and student safety
(d) dealing with kids, so your options for managing the gun are limited
(e) in a real hot mess trying to even find a dropped gun, much less recover it

Everything about it challenges every aspect of concealed carry to the limit, all at once. It's similar to riding the subway, in the same way that deep sea diving is just like snorkeling in your pool.

Where done/trained with drivers or monitors, it's more about security at the individual stop(s), ultimate destination, or a mid-route disable of some sort.

Nope, nobody has ever hopped on a school bus while kids are loading and unloading, and taken hostages.

For starters, given that there are approximately 480k school buses on the road, the majority of them in-use daily, you'd be better off worrying about a meteor strike. I was infinitely more interested in all of the other ways you can kill a child. Like closing the door on their bag and dragging them to death. Rolling over them as you leave the stop. Letting them stick their dumb heads out the window (there is a reason the windows only open as far as they do, and that reason is a real incident that resulted in decapitation).

For another, roll the damn stop and call it in. I did exactly that several times, for sketchy individuals at the stop, wrong parent at the stop, and so on. Takes two brain cells and half a ball. If there's the slightest hint of danger or strangeness at the stop, you don't open the doors. Simple as that. If you don't have time to assess the stop while approaching it, you're driving too fast and need to slow down.

RE: the Army trainee hijacking. The guy was unable to get the door closed in time to prevent entry. What makes you think he'd be able to draw and fire from concealment in less time? The door switch is either a button on the wheel (ugh, fucking Internationals) or a huge tall toggle on the windowsill panel (Thomas C2 master race). Any bus driver that's been on the road more than two weeks can operate the door on his bus blindfolded. If he wasn't able to do that, then he's equally unlikely to be able to draw and fire. And no, shooting the guy after he's on is gonna be a non-starter, you're gonna perforate some kids.

RE: the dead doofus. That guy sat there and dared the guy to shoot him. My advice to trainees was always this: there is no scenario where the driver dies and all the kids are okay. Get the bus rolling. Get on the radio and alert dispatch. The bus gets shot, some kids are probably going to take a hit. You're probably going to take a hit. But get the bus going and as far down the road as you can manage.

PS--My particular experience was a little bit of everything. Of course I drove trips (gotta get dat OT). I also did packed gradeschool buses, less-dense high school and middle school runs. I actually cut my teeth driving special needs--the entire gamut of special needs. I had a student that came with an instruction on what to do if he had three seizures on the way home. I had regular disabled kids, extremely troubled children with really bad backgrounds, and one giant of a fellow that was more than six feet tall, weighed well over 200 pounds, loved Where the Wild Things Are, and who could tear out the seats on a bus if he got worked up. I also had disabled students that were completely nonverbal.