Ketamine is a hell of a drug, but not totally without risks and every time I’ve seen it used on an EDP, it involved a polyester pile to hold them still enough while a paramedic snuck a syringe into the pile of humanity.
Ketamine is a hell of a drug, but not totally without risks and every time I’ve seen it used on an EDP, it involved a polyester pile to hold them still enough while a paramedic snuck a syringe into the pile of humanity.
Anything I post is my opinion alone as a private citizen.
If I could have gotten a job rolling around town in an open top jeep, shooting darts full of haldol decanoate at schizophrenics once a month, I would have totally become a psychiatrist.Originally Posted by Nephrology
I too have spent more time planning this out than I should have.
Sadly this stupid idea is spreading. The local PD is sending one of their trainers to a seminar at LaGrange. But then again the chief here is a bit of a dunce so his ordering this doesn’t surprise me.
“Conspiracy theories are just spoiler alerts these days.”
It's basically going to function like the world's shittiest taser, with maybe extended range, but substantially higher failure rate, and also a substantially higher rate of adverse events associated with the drugs you use. Not to mention massively delayed effect and the chance for disabling injuries if a dart lands in the wrong place (anywhere above the neck...)
Not to mention - who is going to prescribe these drugs so PD has them on hand? Is their license/NPI going to be on the line if someone gets a dart and goes into cardiopulmonary arrest? How are they going to select what agent to use, and how are they going to dose it? Not to mention practical concerns about a missed shot (dart full of controlled substances lands somewhere, later gets found by passerby...), what seems to me like obviously high failure rate, etc....
The idea is insane on so many levels I have no idea why anyone would be taking this seriously.
Ketamine also has a very high rate of emergence psychosis, so have fun when that wears off. BTW, ketamine also was also blamed for the death of a young black male in my neck of the woods (Elijah McClaine) and now isn't allowed on ACLS crews as far as I know.
Last edited by Nephrology; 05-20-2021 at 06:04 PM.
In east Asia, these are actually fairly widespread today, albeit in slightly less aggressive models. In China most airports, train stations, schools, malls, even city hotels have them for use by security guards or for the police to use when they arrive on a call. Mass shootings are almost unknown (other than those perpetrated by the government...), but public knife attacks, either by deranged people or the occasional terrorist faction, do happen. There are more often rashes of attacks particularly directed at elementary schools, where mentally ill people usually not connected to the school will go on a rampage stabbing and slashing kids. Most schools in China now have riot shields and mancatchers, called "push poles" in Chinese, for "intruder incidents".
Here is one propped up against the US embassy in Chengdu when the Chinese government shut it down in retaliation (were they going to pin down the Consul General?), along with Chairman Xi checking out some tools "used to maintain safety and order" in Xinjiang:
(arrows added by someone else)
Here is a neighbourhood group, some off-duty police, and then regular police using them in China:
https://www.nsfwyoutube.com/watchmore?v=kAw3wswVZYA
Seffrican dude touches Chinese policing.
That video is actually kind of interesting to watch. In a place where the police do not have standoff capable less lethal options (seemingly not even pepper spray), it's not surprising that this would be an option. Back in the day, American LE would occasionally have to improvise similar options (i.e. ladders) in order to contain knife armed subjects experiencing a mental/emotional break.In east Asia, these are actually fairly widespread today, albeit in slightly less aggressive models. In China most airports, train stations, schools, malls, even city hotels have them for use by security guards or for the police to use when they arrive on a call. Mass shootings are almost unknown (other than those perpetrated by the government...), but public knife attacks, either by deranged people or the occasional terrorist faction, do happen. There are more often rashes of attacks particularly directed at elementary schools, where mentally ill people usually not connected to the school will go on a rampage stabbing and slashing kids. Most schools in China now have riot shields and mancatchers, called "push poles" in Chinese, for "intruder incidents".
Here is one propped up against the US embassy in Chengdu when the Chinese government shut it down in retaliation (were they going to pin down the Consul General?), along with Chairman Xi checking out some tools "used to maintain safety and order" in Xinjiang:
(arrows added by someone else)
Here is a neighbourhood group, some off-duty police, and then regular police using them in China:
Overall they did a pretty good job of containing the guy. They kind of fell for the "Okay, I'm putting it down now..." ploy, and almost lost containment, but hey....shit happens.
Thread hijack alert: Mods please split this off if needed.
Thanks for posting that video, and thanks to him for making it. If anything, he could go harder on how bad things are in some places, especially rural areas. Like so, so many things in China, policing is arbitrary and inconsistent. As he says, there is also a stark urban/rural divide, which reflects a general gulf between the major cities and the countryside in everything from education and healthcare to social standing. Urban = rich, modern, the pride of China. Rural = worthless, backward, China's secret shame.
In most major cities, there are huge numbers of police who are basically bureaucrats and functionaries in uniform, walking and driving around looking hard for nothing to do and artfully avoiding any real work or interactions with people. Beyond that are a number of swaggering bullies, and to be really fair, a portion who are dutiful and attentive. Most urban Chinese buy into the manufactured notion that the police are all just kindly social service workers, and the government generally keeps a fairly tight rein on them in the first and second tier cities, in part to preserve that. Basically nobody in the major cities has any fear of the police (unless they have experienced something firsthand).
In the rural areas, the police are very often seen as virtual gangsters, the strongarm agents of the many corrupt local government officials who make life almost unbearable for those who are vulnerable, with little oversight from the national government and even less concern.
A special note on the Chengguan that he talks about: These people are notorious even in China. Every city of any size has a department of them and they all mostly suck, but the smaller cities are the worst. They are technically administrative law officials and are not actually part of the police force, sort of like the worst city code/compliance officers imaginable. However, in practice they are little more than violent thugs running protection rackets and outright shakedowns, preying on poor street vendors, manual labourers, sex workers (illegal but widespread), and anyone else who is marginal, mostly helpless, or not connected. In some cities, they actually come into violent conflict with the real police forces fairly often, and deaths on both sides have occurred as a result of it. It's basically gang warfare between the two factions, with the police often acting as the arm of corrupt local government and the Chengguan often acting as the arm of local criminal gangs.
He is also very correct about the tentacles of the government reaching around people's families, loved ones, professional and personal relations, and friends in China, and how they actively go after people critical of China even outside of the country. This is a major part of why I'm kind of a fanatic about PERSEC online. Obviously, it especially applies to Chinese (both national and ethnic) in China and abroad, but even foreigners are not immune, as his case highlights. Basically, the idea that ANYTHING related to government or civil administration in China would be seen as a role model is absurd. I can't imagine how anyone with even the most basic understanding of China today could think that the Chinese police or governmental systems are anything other than a giant, jumping-up-and down warning of what could go wrong elsewhere.
Oh, they have pepper spray, but a guy swinging a cleaver isn't an approved UoF scenario to deploy...however, grandpas being grandpas do apparently meet the guidelines.
Just to point out, the officer in question wasn't really suspended for the act itself, but rather for being videoed in the act and ending up online. Spraying an elderly man in a culture where someone of that status is considered more or less a paragon of society violates the image the government wants to project. The fact that it happened in Hangzhou, a major cultural and financial hub ("Above, paradise is heaven; on earth, it is Suzhou and Hangzhou", as the old saying goes) also reinforces the "people in nice cities matter" factor discussed in another post.
The knife guy is partly lucky he got a somewhat-proficient crowd to tackle him. I've seen other video maybe 15 years ago where a local group caught someone who was "robbing" ("mugging" is probably a better translation) local merchants. He put up more of a struggle to escape, so the crowd panicked and just started stabbing and beating him with the poles until a patrol officer arrived on the scene...and hit him with his motorcycle.
Good to see you back.
I've noticed that tyrannical governments are inevitably corrupt governments, so no real surprise there.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
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