Armed Portland ANTIFA Assault Driver

[RevolverRob]

You're missing the point. You said these types of people don't have the balls, especially when their buddies get splattered. Here's a nationally famous instance where that's clearly not the case. You're parlaying an assumption on par with "hit the biggest bully in the schoolyard and no one will mess with you." It sounds like wishcasting.



Rittenhouse had no business being there, but neither did anyone who was out there.

I've never heard of the Seattle guy at all.

But, that's getting away from the focal point; You hypothesized that gunfights between these types and citizens isn't going to be helping their optics. And I'm telling you I haven't seen any evidence that support for BLM amongst on the fence normies has taken a hit as a result. If you got some such evidence, I'd love to see it.

I think we're talking past each other.

I'm not saying the 'punch the biggest bully' will work. I'm saying my experience with folks adjacent to and of a similar mindset is, when confronted with violence, they tend to back down just a little bit. They attacked Rittenhouse after he shot someone. And yet, he got out, relatively, unscathed, because they were not willing to deal back in lethal violence. And the attacks after him shooting were more modest. The mindset you may have to have when dealing with these folks if threatened with deadly force is to shoot first and move. By shooting you're creating an egress opportunity, not a gunfight opportunity. It might turn into a gunfight, hopefully not.

Think of it as the ultimate OODA Loop reset for the crowd around you.

I should have been clearer it might get the crowd to back off, permanently, or it might get them to take a step back as they breathe in to come and kick your ass. Either way, you're working against a group that isn't as dedicated as jihadists. Despite what they preach, I don't think these folks are genuine true believers. Their interactions and response when confronted with violence seems to indicate that. Yes, they may try to overwhelm someone and attack them, but they aren't doubling down on their fight and turning it into a fight to the death.

ETA: In my, non-professional, opinion, being ordered by non-law enforcement to exit a vehicle at rifle point meets the definition in most places for reasonable fear of death or injury.

Everyone should do what they think is best in their circumstances. My philosophy isn't to stand around and argue the finer points of the law with people who are holding rifles on me. It is to find an opportunity to escape.
___

Regarding the political support. It's all over the place and I'm not sure the media or the world knows which way people lean. The Op-Ed pieces here in Chicago initially painted Rittenhouse as a thug looking for blood, but then backed down on that position when more and more video showed him being attacked. I've seen a lot of folks who view aggressive BLM with distaste enough that they're backing down from their support of them. Not all, mind you, and I'm sure some of them are backing down only to re-up in their support at a later date when they've forgotten what is going on.

What needs to go on is a counter-narrative. Frankly, you fight a 'war' like this, by galvanizing the people against it. I hate to say it, but getting BLM folks to burn a nursing home or a daycare will go a long way towards turning the public against them.

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ETA 2: Should folks, who find themselves in the unenviable position of being charged with a crime after a self-defense shooting, begin to think about having bench trials instead of jury trials? Particularly in judicially 'unfriendly' areas? I think this is a travesty of justice in many respects. But I can't help but wonder if it's easier on appeal, if you're convicted and you have the high(er) knowledge of the law with a judge. Of course, if you draw an activist judge, this may be a bad idea.

[blues]

I think we're talking past each other.

I'm not saying the 'punch the biggest bully' will work. I'm saying my experience with folks adjacent to and of a similar mindset is, when confronted with violence, they tend to back down just a little bit. They attacked Rittenhouse after he shot someone. And yet, he got out, relatively, unscathed, because they were not willing to deal back in lethal violence. And the attacks after him shooting were more modest. The mindset you may have to have when dealing with these folks if threatened with deadly force is to shoot first and move. By shooting you're creating an egress opportunity, not a gunfight opportunity. It might turn into a gunfight, hopefully not.

Think of it as the ultimate OODA Loop reset for the crowd around you.

I should have been clearer it might get the crowd to back off, permanently, or it might get them to take a step back as they breathe in to come and kick your ass. Either way, you're working against a group that isn't as dedicated as jihadists. Despite what they preach, I don't think these folks are genuine true believers. Their interactions and response when confronted with violence seems to indicate that. Yes, they may try to overwhelm someone and attack them, but they aren't doubling down on their fight and turning it into a fight to the death.

...Snip...

Rob, you're a smart guy...but I think you're trying to resuscitate a losing argument.

I think you should have just admitted the point made by @Hot Sauce and moved on...instead of going around in circles trying to justify yourself.

Just my opinion, though.

[LittleLebowski]

You are being obtuse. And he’s in Western Washington. Not Portland.

No, I wasn’t. I disagree with you believing third to fifth hand stuff you read online over direct reports from the ground, but maybe that will never bite you in the ass, hopefully. What I took issue with is you slipping in that Soros reference in there, so I called you on it. It’s not like the guy you used that on isn’t a stand up, intelligent, well known member that doesn’t promulgate BS; hence me taking umbrage with the Soros bullshit. Personally, I would have apologized in your place; but that’s me.

[Clusterfrack]

On his way home at 9:30pm after class, one of my martial arts buddies ended up driving into the middle of the George F anniversary BLM riot downtown Portland. Fortunately it was just getting started and he was able to turn off onto a side street and drive away before too many rioters noticed him. He felt it was a close call:

“I was driving to the Morrison Bridge through downtown and they were moving barricade fences into the street luckily they weren’t that organized yet most of them were all just on the sidewalks and I had to just go round some barricade fencing”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/7444778002/

[Moylan]

Glad he's OK.

[GyroF-16]

On his way home at 9:30pm after class, one of my martial arts buddies ended up driving into the middle of the George F anniversary BLM riot downtown Portland. Fortunately it was just getting started and he was able to turn off onto a side street and drive away before too many rioters noticed him. He felt it was a close call:

“I was driving to the Morrison Bridge through downtown and they were moving barricade fences into the street luckily they weren’t that organized yet most of them were all just on the sidewalks and I had to just go round some barricade fencing”

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...ts/7444778002/

Forgive my naïveté - but the “protesters” were placing barricade fencing in the streets? Or did I misunderstand, and it was the police?
If “protesters” are free to use dedicated equipment to block streets when they choose, society in that city has already given up too much in the role of “maintaining order”.
Maybe I’m just late to the game.

[Clusterfrack]

Forgive my naïveté - but the “protesters” were placing barricade fencing in the streets? Or did I misunderstand, and it was the police?
If “protesters” are free to use dedicated equipment to block streets when they choose, society in that city has already given up too much in the role of “maintaining order”.
Maybe I’m just late to the game.

BLM and Antifa rioters are using freely available barricades and other objects for their own purposes. There appears to be a significant level of planning involved.

[Lex Luthier]

BLM and Antifa rioters are using freely available barricades and other objects for their own purposes. There appears to be a significant level of planning involved.

And with that planning, a significant amount of involvement at some higher level of local Govt. I wonder who benefits, and how?

(I'm seeing quite similar stuff locally, as you know, so I am interested in your take.)

[Clusterfrack]

And with that planning, a significant amount of involvement at some higher level of local Govt. I wonder who benefits, and how?

(I'm seeing quite similar stuff locally, as you know, so I am interested in your take.)

Conspiracy theories require too much competence and trustworthiness for our local officials to pull off. I think the BLM and Antifa folks make some halfassed plans a few days before, and that’s about it.

[Totem Polar]

Conspiracy theories require too much competence and trustworthiness for our local officials to pull off. I think the BLM and Antifa folks make some halfassed plans a few days before, and that’s about it.

Even a half-assed plan still looks and fares pretty good against no plan—which is the alternative being pushed down from the local leaders.

Glad your bro was able to E&E. Sobering stuff. Especially aggregated along with Lex’s shot spotter AK-47 stuff.

No dull moments, it seems.