JCN’s Taurus 380 Snubbie review

[Joe in PNG]

Agreed. 380 and 38 are both marginal. But that’s why the test. If people are carrying 38 revolvers in civilian life then a 380 revolver might be an option for them.

I don’t know when this official PF tests were done, but there have been some interesting modern 380 offerings in so called “+P” that have had very good and consistent penetration and expansion by virtue of higher velocities.

The new 99gr Federal HST is also interesting in testing.

The question is, are those loads 1) meeting the proper protocols (12-18" of penetration) 2) through the proper medium (4ld; 10% ballistics gel) 3) and with proper expansion. A lot of testing tends to neglect #2, and use the less reliable but very impressive looking clear gel.
The .380's traditionally tend to either not expand, or not penetrate.

[Duelist]

Do people here carry 38 wadcutters?
People said they carry 38 Gold Dots.

An XTP in 380 ACP is almost like a semi-wadcutter with a very small petal.

Plus the screw top copper Xtreme Penetrator and Xtreme Defender are also good punchers of tissue.

People very commonly carry match wadcutters, especially in the Airweight and lighter S&W revolvers and their equivalent competitors. It cuts a good hole, penetrates in tissue well, and just is a really good choice for those living the Jframe Life. It is The Thing among many switched on shooters, either for shootability in the light guns, improved effectiveness over JHP that probably won’t expand from a short barrel, or both.

My edc 642 has Federal GMM wadcutters in it, and very rarely anything else. I like Gold Dots, too, but won’t shoot +P in an Airweight J if I have a choice. 110gr Hornady Critical Defense does well, too, and is not obnoxious to shoot out of the J. If I have any, I use it as the reload in the speed strip I’m usually carrying when carrying a J.

My once-in-a-while 60-9 probably has a +P JHP in it. I haven’t looked recently enough to recall exactly, but it’s either Ranger bonded 130gr +P or Hydrashock 129gr +P. If I’m hiking with it, it will have a +P level hardcast wide flat nose lead or low to mid range .357 load with the same bullet. If I carry it in town, it’s to have reload commonality with the 642, just because I’m being revolver ornery, and/or because I’d rather carry it than a 4” Kframe on my belt most of the time.

[JCN]

The question is, are those loads 1) meeting the proper protocols (12-18" of penetration) 2) through the proper medium (4ld; 10% ballistics gel) 3) and with proper expansion. A lot of testing tends to neglect #2, and use the less reliable but very impressive looking clear gel.
The .380's traditionally tend to either not expand, or not penetrate.

Yes, the XTP does penetrate to >12” through real gel and 4LD as it is a mild expander (about 0.50”)

https://general-cartridge.com/2020/0...cs-gel-retest/

That’s with normal pressure XTP at 800 fps. The hotter Underwood loading actually penetrates farther because XTP max expands early and unlike Gold Dots that penetrate less with more velocity, this one goes farther.

It passes ONE of the FBI tests but fails others like barrier penetration because it’s still just a 380.

Like I said, I carry 9mm minimum most of the time but I wouldn’t feel badly if I had to carry an XTP in 380.

[JCN]

People very commonly carry match wadcutters, especially in the Airweight and lighter S&W revolvers and their equivalent competitors. It cuts a good hole, penetrates in tissue well, and just is a really good choice for those living the Jframe Life. It is The Thing among many switched on shooters, either for shootability in the light guns, improved effectiveness over JHP that probably won’t expand from a short barrel, or both.

It’s interesting because an LCR9 is not much larger or heavier than a J-frame and shoots 9mm at velocities comparable to micro-9 semiautos (and is way easier to shoot than 357 magnum despite similar ballistics out of a J-frame).

So would you rather have a J-frame with a wadcutter or an LCR9 with Gold Dot at 1000fps+ when similarly shootable?

That was part of the reason to check out a 380 revolver.

9mm is so efficient out of snubbies that I wondered if 380 would be similar scaling on a lower power level for a lighter revolver.

The screw top Xtreme Penetrator 380 is like the functional wadcutter. It’s solid copper and meant to poke holes.





But in testing, the Xtreme Defender is good penetration without too much penetration.

[BigT]

You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But I'll answer your questions.
A.) 100% of my handgun shooting is either killing something or training for killing something. For the freezer, or for defense of self and others. I kill something from once to 3 times per week in my very rural life. Not all with a pistol, sometimes a shotgun and sometimes a rifle, all three are commonly at hand and have been since I was about 6 years old.
Even when we shoot balloons or paper plates or steel, it's practice for killing something.
And we do it with calibers that will drop living things quick, that doesn't include .380. I've killed coyotes (the smallest critters we commonly kill) with many calibers and I consider the noble coyote to deserve better than a .380 hit. Coyotes are easy to kill.
I understand many people CARRY .380's, the only man I know that USED a .380 had rediculously poor results. I've also seen a man killed with a cheap kitchen knife. That doesn't mean I'll carry one for defense of my family.
You and ever body else are free to do as you choose, I only get to choose my firearms of course.

B.) I have a 44 mag 329PD on me or within reach 24 hours per day (240 gr. XTP or medium cast Kieth bullet, at about 1200fps) because I'm in the vicinity of large, dangerous animals about all the time. In addition a 357 (158 XTP or Kieth at about 1300+) or 45ACP (in town) second gun a lot of the time. Always a rifle and a shotgun in close proximity. I have no expectation of others wanting to duplicate my choices but mine are very well proven, in my area of operations against my problem targets so I'm good with them.

Again I say:
You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But some of us carry working tools every day and our outlook is "different".

eta: I've never shot a cantelope, I think it's wrong to shoot cantelope, I like to EAT cantelope : ) we don't waste fine food.
But we love to shoot food on the hoof ; )

Im guessing from what you've said here you would not be dismissed from your employment if your pistol got spotted?

[CCT125US]

Im guessing from what you've said here you would not be dismissed from your employment if your pistol got spotted?

Quoted for truth. Classic example of being stuck in a box, and not realizing firearms carry can be situationally dependent to others.

[Duelist]

It’s interesting because an LCR9 is not much larger or heavier than a J-frame and shoots 9mm at velocities comparable to micro-9 semiautos (and is way easier to shoot than 357 magnum despite similar ballistics out of a J-frame).

So would you rather have a J-frame with a wadcutter or an LCR9 with Gold Dot at 1000fps+ when similarly shootable?

That was part of the reason to check out a 380 revolver.

My Glock 26 is easier to shoot than my 642 (and probably easier to shoot than an LCR9) and holds >2x the ammunition. I have no issues with carrying and shooting a more effective load.

An LCR9 is bigger and a bit heavier than an Airweight or Airlite J, making it less pocketable. I’ve never shot one, but I doubt it would be really a fun thing to shoot for me due to wrist issues. My 642 gets only wadcutters, 110gr Critical Defense, or bunny fart handloads, because I can only really shoot 20 or so rounds of heavier service level ammunition through it before it starts to hurt. I won’t shoot super light micro 9 semiautos, either. My G26 doesn’t hurt to shoot (lighter/thinner/smaller 9mms usually do), and neither does the G42 (along with being thinner, lighter, and easier to shoot fast and well than a 642), but a pocketable revolver has logistical advantages over a semiauto in my use case that are hard to ignore, so that’s why I carry an Airweight J most work days.

[JCN]

Quoted for truth. Classic example of being stuck in a box, and not realizing firearms carry can be situationally dependent to others.

To be fair, @JTMcC did say that his opinion was just his opinion for his situation.

I think the ZOMG, need zombie apocalypse caliber killing power to be serious about killing... might be overstated.

For a number of handgun encounters, presenting a gun ends the encounter without shooting. For another percentage, the noisemaker aspect of it is a "psychological stop" of the encounter even without hitting or killing anything.

Of course I wouldn't want to depend on that and wouldn't take a 380 as a primary in Law Enforcement (even though a number of countries do use wimpy calibers for their police).

But GUNS ARE FOR KIIIIILLLLLLLIIIING might be overstated for a lot of self defense carry.

For me, guns are to stop a threat. I don't have to kill them. That's not my primary goal.

[JCN]

My Glock 26 is easier to shoot than my 642 (and probably easier to shoot than an LCR9) and holds >2x the ammunition. I have no issues with carrying and shooting a more effective load.

An LCR9 is bigger and a bit heavier than an Airweight or Airlite J, making it less pocketable. I’ve never shot one, but I doubt it would be really a fun thing to shoot for me due to wrist issues. My 642 gets only wadcutters, 110gr Critical Defense, or bunny fart handloads, because I can only really shoot 20 or so rounds of heavier service level ammunition through it before it starts to hurt. I won’t shoot super light micro 9 semiautos, either. My G26 doesn’t hurt to shoot (lighter/thinner/smaller 9mms usually do), and neither does the G42 (along with being thinner, lighter, and easier to shoot fast and well than a 642), but a pocketable revolver has logistical advantages over a semiauto in my use case that are hard to ignore, so that’s why I carry an Airweight J most work days.

I hear you. I'm pointing out to @Joe in PNG and @JTMcC that sometimes people choose convenience over LEO appropriate or "max killing serious bizness" calibers.

You might be surprised at how pleasant an LCR9 is to shoot. It really feels like a 38+P which is the amazing part despite being superior in ballistics.

Your scenario is EXACTLY why I tested the Taurus M380 revolver.

It's 14 ounces which is the same weight as an MP340.

Size is also equivalent. Top to bottom, LCR9, MP340, M380



So this test was: "Hey, if you're going to be shooting reduced power bunny farts out of a J-frame... would a 380 scale better ballistics (with improved shootability) like the 9mm scales to 357 magnum out of a similar barrel length?"

[SCCY Marshal]

I think the M380 should really shine in this current ammo/component shortage. Less than four grains of Unique can push a cast 95 grain flat nose to 950fps with moderate pressure an mild muzzle blast. Not needing to reliably cycle an action and run through a feedway, a bunch of bullet options open up. Such as Lee's 105 grain semi-wadcutter for more weight than the usual .380 fare with much more aggressive frontal surface and near enough the same velocities. Or whatever 9mm bullets can be sourced and just loaded a bit long in the case as fit the cylinder. Moonclips save ALL of the precious brass. Straight-walled brass that runs at a low pressure, cycles surprisingly smoothly through a press, and has a very respectable service life if not hotrodded.

For many, the small frame snub is a back-up or substitute standard carry piece. This means it is, at best, second priority for practice. The low lead demand and way .380 stretches a can of powder could very well get people to reload and practice more. Similarly, people in the market for a snub for themselves or a family member during this panic may already have a .380 auto and ammunition for, making the M380 attractive versus something that would require tracking down a whole new caliber when shelves are bare.

But what this thread really plants in my mind is the possibility to run a S&W 380 Shield EZ as a belt gun and M380 as a pocket BUG that eats from the same trough. For those comfortable with or needing to use 380 ACP, it could make an interesting combo.