Came across this video:
Would be interesting if that improves the shootability closer to the LCP
Came across this video:
Would be interesting if that improves the shootability closer to the LCP
The average leo doesn't deal with large animals. The last time our local cops faced a black bear they shot it multiple times with low recoil and fast split times using 5.56 tap with little effect and eventually killed it with a Chevy Tahoe.
If my stoutest potential target was human I wouldn't carry a .44RM. But, I wouldn't carry a .380 either. You of course are free to carry whatever chambering you desire.
I base my take on seeing many calibers used on living tissue and don't get hurt about people who carry chamberings that I wouldn't.
But .380 is living on the veeeery, veeeery bottom edge of "it might help me out of a bind" both historically and in my antecdotal experience.
I'm not content there. You may be so "carry on" and ignore my interuption.
@JTMcC well, I definitely wouldn’t recommend a 380 snubbie for black bear defense.
I guess we are in agreement.
I bow out, regretting ever commenting on the thread, I would not recommend .380 for anything except an elderly person not able to handle even 9mm. That was my point, I've decked coyotes with many rounds I'd hate to use against a full grown man and I'd never launch a .380 at a coyote, hence.......
I don't think we're in agreement but it's the interweb so who cares
Rock on happily.
It’s all good, friend! It’s just for fun (I don’t carry 380, I’m just trying to burn up unused calibers).
Personally 9mm is my minimum recommended caliber, but sometimes I don’t carry anything or carry a pocket 22WMR.
I was a little surprised that a lot of carry revolver people on PF carry 38 special Gold Dots in their J-frames, so this was just looking at a comparable option.
This thread is kind of like my Israeli carry video... just because I study something doesn’t mean I use it in practice, it’s more to put information out there in case others are interested and it helps them.
240 gr at 1200 fps = 800 ft lbs of energy
Underwood XTP 10mm is 200 gr listed at 1250 fps is about as hot as I have, but I do have a G20 with a 10” barrel that might up the velocity. It’ll be interesting to see what the semi-auto equivalent of your 44 mag would be.
Some of the lighter 10mm and 357 Sig are faster and make close to 800 ft lbs but I’d imagine you’d want something heavier rather than lighter.
Its just not energy. .38 wadcutters penetrate deep and straight and damage a lot more tissue than fmj that slip through tissue in weird directions and light bone can deflect them.
The official PF Ammo Section Sticky Post on .380 & .38, from our own DocGKR: BUG's: .380 ACP vs. .38 Sp
A snip:
And while spam cans, watermelon, fruit, and the clear stuff looks like it should be a good analogue, it's been reported here (repeatedly!) that performance in properly prepped and calibrated 10% ballistics gel through 4 layers of denim has a better correlation to performance in actual shootings.While these small caliber handgun bullets can produce fatal wounds,they are less likely to produce the rapid incapacitation necessary in law enforcement or self-defense situations.
The terminal performance of .380 ACP JHP's is often erratic, with inadequate penetration and inconsistent expansion being common problems, while .380 ACP FMJ's offer adequate penetration, but no expansion. All of the .380 ACP JHP loads we have tested, including CorBon, Hornady, Federal, Remington, Speer, and Winchester exhibited inconsistent, unacceptable terminal performance for law enforcement back-up and off duty self-defense use due to inadequate penetration or inadequate expansion. Stick with FMJ for .380 ACP or better yet, don't use it at all. The use of .380 ACP and smaller caliber weapons is really not recommended for LE use and many savvy agencies prohibit them.
While both the .380 ACP and .38 sp can obviously be lethal; the .38 sp is more likely to incapacitate an attacker when used in a BUG role.
"You win 100% of the fights you avoid. If you're not there when it happens, you don't lose." - William Aprill
"I've owned a guitar for 31 years and that sure hasn't made me a musician, let alone an expert. It's made me a guy who owns a guitar."- BBI
Agreed. 380 and 38 are both marginal. But that’s why the test. If people are carrying 38 revolvers in civilian life then a 380 revolver might be an option for them.
I don’t know when those official PF tests were done, but there have been some interesting modern 380 offerings in so called “+P” that have had very good and consistent penetration and expansion by virtue of higher velocities.
The new 99gr Federal HST is also interesting in testing.
The fruit and barrier stuff is just for fun and to see visual differences. FBI testing includes performance through steel plates for car doors and sometimes interesting things come out with it rather than just gel and denim.
I did this one with a 45 degree slanted steel plate testing 300 blk vs 45 ACP
Last edited by JCN; 05-05-2021 at 11:27 PM.