JCN’s Taurus 380 Snubbie review

[JCN]

I believe that carry firearms should be compared against alternatives with ballistics and shootability in mind.



Here’s up on the docket today...

[Flamingo]

I have zero interest in getting a Taurus .380 revolver, but this post is awesome!

[JCN]

It's quite fun to shoot. Recoil is mild and options are a good thing.

[JTMcC]

"fun to shoot", "mild recoil" and "options" are really great. Until you NEED to kill something and then those options are just play toys.

Not dogging on those who only shoot for play. But they need to understand they are a small anomily in gun carry land.
It's a much more serious thing for a lot of people and bullet diameter, bullet construction, and velocity really starts to matter there.

[JCN]

"fun to shoot", "mild recoil" and "options" are really great. Until you NEED to kill something and then those options are just play toys.

Not dogging on those who only shoot for play. But they need to understand they are a small anomily in gun carry land.
It's a much more serious thing for a lot of people and bullet diameter, bullet construction, and velocity really starts to matter there.

Couple questions for you. What do you normally carry and what percent of your shooting is NEEDING to kill something versus play?

As I understand it, there are a LOT of people out there that carry LCPs (and this Taurus is ballistically similar).

In addition, there are a lot of ex-LEO that carry snubby J-frames with 38 special (which produces similar ft*lbs to 380 out of snubbies).

I've heard a lot of them think shot placement is more serious than caliber.

Here were some nonscientific comparative tests I ran in 380 a number of years ago.





I wouldn't carry one as a primary. I think the Ruger LCR9 is probably the best ballistic snubbie out there with velocities on par with a P365.

Really, I think a lot of people depend too much on hardware instead of software and should spend more time training anyway.

[JCN]

This was the first ballistic video I ever did back in 2017 trying to get a sense of what 380 would do compared to 9mm.



Before people jump on me for saying "energy dump," I'll say it was early in my shooting education and I don't believe everything I thought at the time of those videos.

I still like the visuals, though.

[FrankB]

A freshly revived drug addict used a .380 to kill a fireman/medic: https://youtu.be/8k4L97igDjY
That was horrific, and of course the paramedics were already there. A .380 is lethal.

[JTMcC]

Couple questions for you. What do you normally carry and what percent of your shooting is NEEDING to kill something versus play?

As I understand it, there are a LOT of people out there that carry LCPs (and this Taurus is ballistically similar).

In addition, there are a lot of ex-LEO that carry snubby J-frames with 38 special (which produces similar ft*lbs to 380 out of snubbies).

I've heard a lot of them think shot placement is more serious than caliber.

Here were some nonscientific comparative tests I ran in 380 a number of years ago.





I wouldn't carry one as a primary. I think the Ruger LCR9 is probably the best ballistic snubbie out there with velocities on par with a P365.

Really, I think a lot of people depend too much on hardware instead of software and should spend more time training anyway.

You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But I'll answer your questions.
A.) 100% of my handgun shooting is either killing something or training for killing something. For the freezer, or for defense of self and others. I kill something from once to 3 times per week in my very rural life. Not all with a pistol, sometimes a shotgun and sometimes a rifle, all three are commonly at hand and have been since I was about 6 years old.
Even when we shoot balloons or paper plates or steel, it's practice for killing something.
And we do it with calibers that will drop living things quick, that doesn't include .380. I've killed coyotes (the smallest critters we commonly kill) with many calibers and I consider the noble coyote to deserve better than a .380 hit. Coyotes are easy to kill.
I understand many people CARRY .380's, the only man I know that USED a .380 had rediculously poor results. I've also seen a man killed with a cheap kitchen knife. That doesn't mean I'll carry one for defense of my family.
You and ever body else are free to do as you choose, I only get to choose my firearms of course.

B.) I have a 44 mag 329PD on me or within reach 24 hours per day (240 gr. XTP or medium cast Kieth bullet, at about 1200fps) because I'm in the vicinity of large, dangerous animals about all the time. In addition a 357 (158 XTP or Kieth at about 1300+) or 45ACP (in town) second gun a lot of the time. Always a rifle and a shotgun in close proximity. I have no expectation of others wanting to duplicate my choices but mine are very well proven, in my area of operations against my problem targets so I'm good with them.

Again I say:
You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But some of us carry working tools every day and our outlook is "different".

eta: I've never shot a cantelope, I think it's wrong to shoot cantelope, I like to EAT cantelope : ) we don't waste fine food.
But we love to shoot food on the hoof ; )

[Velo Dog]

A .380 is lethal.

I've also seen a man killed with a cheap kitchen knife. That doesn't mean I'll carry one for defense of my family.

"BB guns of the type used in this study can easily
produce velocities over 600 ft/sec. There have been
many deaths produced by BBs of this velocity: these are
reported mostly in children. A BB at 600 ft/sec, however,
is fully capable of killing an adult: the fourth
author of this paper has two autopsy reports in his files
of adult males killed by BB shots to the chest. In both
cases the aorta was penetrated: in one case the airgun (a
Daisy Powerline Model 880) was tested in the local
Criminalistics Laboratory and found to be capable of
producing velocities up to 633 ft/sec."

http://thinlineweapons.com/IWBA/1997-Vol3No1.pdf

[JCN]

You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But I'll answer your questions.
A.) 100% of my handgun shooting is either killing something or training for killing something. For the freezer, or for defense of self and others. I kill something from once to 3 times per week in my very rural life. Not all with a pistol, sometimes a shotgun and sometimes a rifle, all three are commonly at hand and have been since I was about 6 years old.
Even when we shoot balloons or paper plates or steel, it's practice for killing something.
And we do it with calibers that will drop living things quick, that doesn't include .380. I've killed coyotes (the smallest critters we commonly kill) with many calibers and I consider the noble coyote to deserve better than a .380 hit. Coyotes are easy to kill.
I understand many people CARRY .380's, the only man I know that USED a .380 had rediculously poor results. I've also seen a man killed with a cheap kitchen knife. That doesn't mean I'll carry one for defense of my family.
You and ever body else are free to do as you choose, I only get to choose my firearms of course.

B.) I have a 44 mag 329PD on me or within reach 24 hours per day (240 gr. XTP or medium cast Kieth bullet, at about 1200fps) because I'm in the vicinity of large, dangerous animals about all the time. In addition a 357 (158 XTP or Kieth at about 1300+) or 45ACP (in town) second gun a lot of the time. Always a rifle and a shotgun in close proximity. I have no expectation of others wanting to duplicate my choices but mine are very well proven, in my area of operations against my problem targets so I'm good with them.

Again I say:
You must of skipped over the part where I said I wasn't dogging on people who shoot for play.

But some of us carry working tools every day and our outlook is "different".

eta: I've never shot a cantelope, I think it's wrong to shoot cantelope, I like to EAT cantelope : ) we don't waste fine food.
But we love to shoot food on the hoof ; )

Thanks for the reply and context. If you're willing to humor me in the spirit of open discussion.

What's the difference between:
"Even when we shoot balloons or paper plates or steel, it's practice for killing something."

Versus:
"Even when we shoot for sport/play, it's practice for killing something."

Then take it a step further:
"If you're really good at the sport/play skill regardless of the intent... you might be better prepared to kill something if need be."

Humans at close quarters in an elevator might be a different thing than a coyote standing still 50 yards away.

@NoTacTravis had a really good analogy about Brazilian Jiu Jitsu that I might not do justice to. My best attempt at paraphrasing is that committing to the sport of something based in self defense can often lead to more proficiency at it... there was an example of being able to kick bottles for fun that translated over seamlessly when it came time to kick attackers in the head.

I trained racing cars for the fun of it. When it came time to use car skill in self-defense, I was better off for it.

I shoot guns for the fun of it and objectively, I'm pretty decent at it. Practicing for fun doesn't mean it won't still be applicable for self defense or "killing something" if the need be.

Obviously our utilization is different and you get a kind of ballistic knowledge that I'll never have and I defer to you on that.

But there's a trade off of ballistics and shootability and a reason why I don't know many LEO that carry 44 mag on duty probably for a reason....