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Thread: Ed Harris--Revisiting the Full Charge Wadcutter

  1. #101
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
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    Or even Trail Boss?
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Would switching to a bulkier powder like Unique address that?


    Okie John
    Or trailboss?

    ETA: I am slow, apparently. :/

  3. #103
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    Factory Hollow-Based Wadcutter Bullets

    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Would switching to a bulkier powder like Unique address that? Okie John
    GREAT question, but in my experience Unique does not ignite uniformly, burn completely or give satisfactory ballistic uniformity [10-shot sample velocity standard deviations =/< 1% of the mean] at typical wadcutter pressures <13000 psi, necessary for best 50-yard test barrel grouping < 4 minutes of angle over a series of not less than four ten-shot groups from a test barrel on slave action, off sandbags with Unertl scope fired in a tube...

    Trail Boss, Red Dot or Green Dot would be the right answer. WST might also have possibilities, but I have not tested it specifically in .357. It is one of the best current modern powders of choice for .32 ACP, .38 Special and .45 ACP wadcutter, as well as for the .44-40, .455 MkII and .45 Colt.

    My experience has been that if your Star or Phelps machine is set up to meter a safe [and pressure-tested] load with Bullseye, that you can refill the powder hopper with WST without any adjustment and have a safe, accurate and satisfactory load in a fixed charge bar. Velocity will be a bit lower, but the load will cycle the pistol and be accurate. If maintaining the same velocity is important, a 10% increase in charge weight will correct that within safe pressure, but I don't use an adjustable charge bar on my loading machine.

    In .38 Special loading either Remington HBWCs or Saeco #348 DEWCs the machine is set to meter 3 grains of Bullseye and I accept normal charge weight variations of +/- 0.1 grain.

    In .45 ACP for the H&G #68 I load 4.2 grains of Bullseye.

    I use that same charge bar in the .38 Special for a standard-pressure, non+P load with the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot "short barrel" for the .38 Special Airweight guns, giving 750 fps from a 2-inch barrel, and in the .45 Auto Rim with a 264-grain flatnosed conical to approximate the .455 Eley service load.

    In the .44-40 and .45 Colt my charge bar meters 6 grains of Bullseye or 6.5 grains of WST which both approximate factory velocity and pressure which are safe for my pre-1920 Colt New Service and Single-Actions. Also very accurate in original Winchesters as well as the repro Uberti, Rossi and other cowboy leverguns.
    Last edited by Outpost75; 05-14-2021 at 07:46 PM.

  4. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    GREAT question, but in my experience Unique does not ignite uniformly, burn completely or give satisfactory ballistic uniformity [10-shot sample velocity standard deviations =/< 1% of the mean] at typical wadcutter pressures <13000 psi, necessary for best 50-yard test barrel grouping < 4 minutes of angle over a series of not less than four ten-shot groups from a test barrel on slave action, off sandbags with Unertl scope fired in a tube...

    Trail Boss, Red Dot or Green Dot would be the right answer. WST might also have possibilities, but I have not tested it specifically in .357. It is one of the best current modern powders of choice for .32 ACP, .38 Special and .45 ACP wadcutter, as well as for the .44-40, .455 MkII and .45 Colt.

    My experience has been that if your Star or Phelps machine is set up to meter a safe [and pressure-tested] load with Bullseye, that you can refill the powder hopper with WST without any adjustment and have a safe, accurate and satisfactory load in a fixed charge bar. Velocity will be a bit lower, but the load will cycle the pistol and be accurate. If maintaining the same velocity is important, a 10% increase in charge weight will correct that within safe pressure, but I don't use an adjustable charge bar on my loading machine.

    In .38 Special loading either Remington HBWCs or Saeco #348 DEWCs the machine is set to meter 3 grains of Bullseye and I accept normal charge weight variations of +/- 0.1 grain.

    In .45 ACP for the H&G #68 I load 4.2 grains of Bullseye.

    I use that same charge bar in the .38 Special for a standard-pressure, non+P load with the Speer 135-grain Gold Dot "short barrel" for the .38 Special Airweight guns, giving 750 fps from a 2-inch barrel, and in the .45 Auto Rim with a 264-grain flatnosed conical to approximate the .455 Eley service load.

    In the .44-40 and .45 Colt my charge bar meters 6 grains of Bullseye or 6.5 grains of WST which both approximate factory velocity and pressure which are safe for my pre-1920 Colt New Service and Single-Actions. Also very accurate in original Winchesters as well as the repro Uberti, Rossi and other cowboy leverguns.
    Thanks for the kind words. At what pressure level--if any--does Unique become a viable option for the 38 Special?


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by okie john View Post
    Thanks for the kind words. At what pressure level--if any--does Unique become a viable option for the 38 Special?


    Okie John
    I haven't used Unique in many years, as I don't care for its large particle size which precludes accurately metering small charges. It doesn't work well in the progressive machines I prefer to use and life is too short to weigh 1000 pistol charges at one sitting. Particularly in cases of .45 ACP and larger there are more efficient powders, such as WST, which burn cleaner, and overall work very much better.

    In a case of volume similar to the .38 Special ballistic uniformity with Unique is satisfactory in standard-pressure, full-charge loads in which pressures range from 14,000-20,000 psi. Much factory wadcutter ammunition in .38 Special produces sample averages around 10-11,000 psi and that's outside Unique's wheelhouse.

    In the great majority of cases the most accurate load in handgun non-magnum ammunition will be produced with the fastest powder which produces the desired velocity and pressure with the smallest charge weight.

  6. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    I haven't used Unique in many years, as I don't care for its large particle size which precludes accurately metering small charges. It doesn't work well in the progressive machines I prefer to use and life is too short to weigh 1000 pistol charges at one sitting. Particularly in cases of .45 ACP and larger there are more efficient powders, such as WST, which burn cleaner, and overall work very much better.

    In a case of volume similar to the .38 Special ballistic uniformity with Unique is satisfactory in standard-pressure, full-charge loads in which pressures range from 14,000-20,000 psi. Much factory wadcutter ammunition in .38 Special produces sample averages around 10-11,000 psi and that's outside Unique's wheelhouse.

    In the great majority of cases the most accurate load in handgun non-magnum ammunition will be produced with the fastest powder which produces the desired velocity and pressure with the smallest charge weight.
    That's exactly what I needed to know.

    Thanks,


    Okie John
    “The reliability of the 30-06 on most of the world’s non-dangerous game is so well established as to be beyond intelligent dispute.” Finn Aagaard
    "Don't fuck with it" seems to prevent the vast majority of reported issues." BehindBlueI's

  7. #107
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    Apologies if this has been posted already. I didn't go back through the thread but I didn't remember seeing it. This is from a 1944 Gun Digest showing Winchester using the 'Full Charge' designation.

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  8. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by revolvergeek View Post
    ...1944 Gun Digest...
    That was the first edition and a good one. Field repairs for hunting rifle stocks, game recipes to include storage time in a "good refrigerator", and more:

    https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmT7eZVXYt2ER59...t%20Annual.pdf

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by SCCY Marshal View Post
    That was the first edition and a good one. Field repairs for hunting rifle stocks, game recipes to include storage time in a "good refrigerator", and more:

    https://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmT7eZVXYt2ER59...t%20Annual.pdf
    Yes sir, I knew I had seen it before, it just took me a while to find it.

  10. #110
    I just remembered my favorite part of that edition:

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