Precise looking vs precise aiming

[Bratch]

With movement...

This is my target setup. I was moving laterally at a normal walk pace and tried to maintain pace. I would start far enough off line to have no view of the target, start movement with a low ready and present when the target became visible. Distance was 5-6 yards.




Looking at the 8” circle


Looking at the 3x5. As mentioned previously everything is tracking high but moving from the 8” to 3x5” focus did noticeably shrink the grouping. I may have moved slightly slower with the 3x5 but tried not to

[Bratch]

All right I keep playing with this more...

Disclaimers working with a M&P Sirt with F/O front. Have not tried anything live or with a different gun, I’ll try my laser bullet in my 365 at some point and see how it holds up. As mentioned up thread I’ve always been a hard front sight one eye closed shooter.

I felt like I had a big change tonight. I’m starting with a target focus but not trying to burn a hole in it, on the target I’m looking at the PT, both eyes open. I presented the pistol to the target while maintaining target focus, at full pressout I’m consciously moving to the front sight to make sure it’s in the 3x5. I’m not trying to do a hard focus on the front sight and not attempting any type of line up in the rear. I’m seeing the front sight superimposed in the 3x5 and breaking the shot. A couple of times I got a little cross eyed trying to shift to the front sight but on the really good runs the movement at the end of the pressout caught my eyes picked up the front sight and broke the shot.

Previously I was hard focused on the target and did not try to acknowledge the front sight at all, with this I’m consciously finding it but not trying for any type of equal height and light.

I didn’t get to play with a timer but it felt faster than a hard front sight focus and trying to get good alignment. Hits were as good or better. I’ll try to run it with a par or some way to get times.

This was 7 yards from concealment with the hybrid target focus

[Steve m]

@Bratch,

That looks like a superb training tool, what is it and what program/app are you using?

Thanks
Steve

[Edster]

I’ll play with it. I’m working down a hallway so will be more forward and back movement at distance. The room opens up around 5 yds so I should be able to do some lateral movements and angels at closer ranges.

I did some presentations at 7 yards and would launch the occasional “round” over the target. For me every miss was high, I noticed if I presented the gun way high into the eye line before starting the pressout the hits were better. If I started pressout a low I tended to look over the top and push high.

FWIW, I've been working a lot on press out lately. Something I noticed that made a big difference for me was striving to get the gun horizontal as I'm bringing it up to eye level.

I've seen footage of trainers saying it's ok to have the front sight a little high as it comes up. For me, it has been faster and more accurate to get both front and rear sights in front of my eyes at the same time. With a good grip and decent physical indexing, they frequently come into view nearly aligned.

I'm wondering if others have had a similar experience.

[Bratch]

@Bratch,

That looks like a superb training tool, what is it and what program/app are you using?

Thanks
Steve

It’s GSight training on IPhone. Works with any laser gun, I’m using a Sirt but also have a 9mm drop in laser.

[Steve m]

@Bratch,

Thanks for the info, i see a laser dry fire with that app in my future

[octagon]

FWIW, I've been working a lot on press out lately. Something I noticed that made a big difference for me was striving to get the gun horizontal as I'm bringing it up to eye level.

I've seen footage of trainers saying it's ok to have the front sight a little high as it comes up. For me, it has been faster and more accurate to get both front and rear sights in front of my eyes at the same time. With a good grip and decent physical indexing, they frequently come into view nearly aligned.

I'm wondering if others have had a similar experience.

That is how I learned it. Early on in my practice(before cell phones and related training aids) I used a laser and worked at getting it on target and keeping it there through the draw and presentation. This way even before the sights were at eye level I had verification that the gun was level and sights aligned. It is a bit of a crutch but early in it helped me.

[Ivantheterrible]

This mirrors my evolution in iron sight shooting over the years (I'm 58). For many years, I was a traditional bullseye "front sight focus" guy. For whatever reason, as I grow older, I have more issues with not trusting where my pistol is when my focus goes to the front sight. Over the past year, I've been working on mentally picking out the spot on the target then bringing the sights to that point. I only use the sights for confirmation of alignment while keeping the focus on the intended point of impact.

Now this technique may not win high X counts at the bullseye match (which I don't shoot anymore) but I do make more consistent "A zone" hits out to 50 yards this way.

[rdtompki]

I'd like to offer a different spin on this discussion in case there are old folks still shooting irons post cataract surgery hereabouts. I'm an average shooter but wife and I, both in our mid-70's, are still dedicated to steel challenge. Some of the lighting conditions are very challenging. When I developed cataracts 4 years ago I tried every manner of lens color to no avail and for a time used my non-dominant eye (ugh!). Following cataract surgery I'm better than 20/20 and have been using prescription glasses, distance left eye and 26"/front sight focus right eye.

Obviously, I can't refocus my right eye and when poor contrast plates are out past 20 yards I really loose lock on the sights struggling to discern the aim point. I had been considering trying a more distant focus to improve target contrast at the expense of front sight clarity. I was at the range today helping my wife sight in one of her nefarious 22lr competition guns (invention of the devil I say) and at the end I got out my 9mm 1911 and ran through 2 magazines at an 18 yard target wearing my PCC glasses which are distant focus in both eyes. The target was crystal clear and despite a very slight fuzz on the sights I had no trouble aligning same. Granted, the target contrast was pretty good, but I'm always able to clearly see even poor contrast targets at distance with my left eye with monovision a distant focus. Monday's match at 4pm with some horrible backgrounds and no over the shoulder sun will tell the tale, but I see this as a potential breakthrough.

I think what I'm doing with external means (the glasses) has a parallel in early parts of this discussion, the difference being that you relative youngsters are using software while I need hardware assist (the glasses).

[Clusterfrack]

Excellent post @rtompki. My corrected vision is actually similar to yours with glasses. I’m nearsighted in my dominant right eye, and farsighted in my left eye.