Holosun circle and circle dot for EDC

[Archer1440]

Circle only has been used for Olympic archery for over 50 years for competitors who find themselves suffering from execution problems due to over aiming, and the scores vs a pin are comparable. It works because a round open aperture on a round target works well, as the eye centers circles in circles quite accurately. We just look at the center of the target and it’s automatic.

In the wind, where we have to aim off, the round aperture still works so long as we pick a spot on the target for the offset and remain focused on it through the entire shot execution.

Certainly the same concept applies to maintaining better target focused shooting with a pistol optic, but the key to accuracy with it is to always pick a spot on the target. Since we engage irregular shaped targets with pistols, this “pick a spot” technique is absolutely essential to good accuracy, and applies to any target focused shooting, with a dot or with a circle.

[GJM]

I shot several five shot two and an half inch groups at 20 yards today with the G47 and a 509T in circle only mode. My "target" was a one inch wide by two inch piece of black tape.

[Jamie]

Thanks to the shared info here on P-F I had ATEi mill my G17 slide and put an RMR on it back in 2018. I was hooked!

Last year I had them mill my G19 and put a Holosun 509T on it. It's remarkable. I shoot it at least once a week, generally twice and do 5-10 minutes ofdry fire daily...but I've only ever used the single dot setting.

I reread this thread and updates and thought "this can't be true". But you guys haven't steered me wrong yet and I have no reason to doubt the collective wisdom here.
So I cycled through to Circle only on my 509 and did some dry fire after work this past week.
I made it to the indoor range yesterday and what do you know? You guys are 100% right!

I'm not allowed to work from my holster at the indoor range so all of my work was from low ready (as is normal for me there). I actually shot better using target focus Circle only from 7 to 25 yards. And I actually had no difficulty keeping all of my shots in the black of a B8, actually smaller grouping than usual using circle only. It seemed easier to place the "circle over the circle" vs steadying the dot.

I think you guys covered it but please help me out on this. I've found that with my dot-only I would occasionally catch a pre-ignition push/dip, not often, once every couple of mags. but when I was "trying really hard" to hit the one inch square at 7-10 yards, sometimes even at 5 yards.
I think I was trying to over-stabilize the dot. Using the circle only seems to have freed up some part of my brain that was messing with me LOL.
I hope what I typed makes sense and would appreciate any suggestions to deal with the pre-ignition dip issues. Christ, it's only a 9mm...

I hopefully will make it to the outdoor range next week and run the circle only on steel and distance.

Thanks in advance for the shared knowledge.

[Nephrology]

I hope what I typed makes sense and would appreciate any suggestions to deal with the pre-ignition dip issues. Christ, it's only a 9mm...

It is still a small explosion going off less than 5 feet from your face. A little flinch is entirely normal. I don't think you can ever get away from having to work on it.

[Clusterfrack]

I think you guys covered it but please help me out on this. I've found that with my dot-only I would occasionally catch a pre-ignition push/dip, not often, once every couple of mags. but when I was "trying really hard" to hit the one inch square at 7-10 yards, sometimes even at 5 yards.
I think I was trying to over-stabilize the dot. Using the circle only seems to have freed up some part of my brain that was messing with me LOL.
I hope what I typed makes sense and would appreciate any suggestions to deal with the pre-ignition dip issues. Christ, it's only a 9mm...
...
Thanks in advance for the shared knowledge.

It is still a small explosion going off less than 5 feet from your face. A little flinch is entirely normal. I don't think you can ever get away from having to work on it.

In newer shooters, a "flinch" response is common. Some don't have it but a lot do.

But in more experienced shooters, it's usually not a flinch in anticipation of an explosion. A pre-ignition push is usually either 1) a timing error in returning the gun after it fires, or 2) incorrect recoil management. Let's talk about (2) first because it's easiest to solve. The gun will lift in recoil after it fires, and we need to use our muscles to bring it back down to fire another shot. That needs to happen AFTER the gun fires, not during or before. A good drill to work on that (if that's the problem) is Hwansik Kim's "Measurement Drill". At close range (3-5yds) fire a shot, and let the gun stay up where it lifts. Then fire a second shot aimed up there. You have measured how much your gun lifts, and also illustrated that return happens afterward.

Now, let's talk about (1) timing errors. This happens when the shooter is trying to shoot fairly fast splits, and mistimes the return. There really isn't a way to fix this other than practice. Relaxation, and focusing on solid wrist lock have worked wonders for me.

[Archer1440]

Using the circle only seems to have freed up some part of my brain that was messing with me LOL.

That was exactly the point I was making.

[Jamie]

That was exactly the point I was making.

Definitely! I wish I had tried this when I first put the 509 on my Glock.


Thank you @Nephrology and @Clusterfrack.

I've not heard of the Hwansik Kim's "Measurement Drill" before. I'll give it a try my next range trip.

The per-ignition dip is infrequent but I have noticed it from time to time over the past year.
As mentioned previously I've been running RDS since 2018, and I shoot at least weekly (meaning focused skills and focused drills except when shooting steel...that's just plain fun!). And 50 or so rounds of revolver each week as well. Thankfully I handload.

I can track my dot with no issues, and find if I'll just go ahead and break the shot when I see the red I get my hits easy enough, target focus of course.
I tend to reset the trigger during recoil, but I've done that for 25 years or so and it's ingrained. I don't snatch the trigger when coming out of recoil (to the best of my knowledge anyway).

That "dip" has only occurred when trying to consistently hit the 1" square in the 6" circle P-F target I primarily use at 7-10 yards. Generally on my first shot. Like I mentioned, it's infrequent, but puzzled me when I noticed it.

I will definitely pay particular attention to my grip and will give the Hwansik Kim's "Measurement Drill" a try.

Thanks again for the input and suggestions.

[stomridertx]

I've experimented with the circle only on my 509tx2 equipped Glock, and I'll admit that it is my favorite of the 3 reticle choices on that optic. What gives me pause in leaving it in that mode is the way my astigmatism works. With uncorrected vision I see a double circle. With my toric contacts or glasses, it's a perfect circle and works very well. Practically speaking, I never shoot without vision correction as I have a prescription insert for my Oakley M Frame eyepro and most always wear contacts to the range, and it's not my CCW gun. It still gives me pause to have that corrected vision requirement for the reticle to work like it should. With a dot, it may be a hot mess but it's still a single aiming point. Every day I think about selling that optic and getting another 6 MOA EPS, but I keep it around because I like everything else about it.