@GJM have you been able to find and use a 407CO yet? I just used one for the first time today. I really like it a lot. Seems to bridge the gap between circle and dot more with fewer trade offs. I don’t know the math and the brightness of the reticle could be affecting it but at 25 yards the 8 MOA circle seems to fit the 10 ring perfect on a B8.
I have one but haven’t installed it yet, but hope to soon.Originally Posted by tlong17
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Shot an abbreviated Steel Challenge match yesterday with a Holosun 508T. On the Smoke & Hope stage I switched to the circle/dot reticle for speed and I do believe it helped a lot. On the next stage, Outer Limits, I switched to the dot only. Compared to the last time I shot this stage with an iron sight pistol, I dropped only 2 rounds in the four strings.
Gotta say I'm impressed with the circle/dot reticle and using a red dot on a pistol.
32 MOA (Holosun 507c on a G19 MOS).
5, 7, 10 and 25 yards.
My 2021 metrics are currently:
TT: 95-1X (7/5/21) (10 rounds in 10 seconds at 10 yards on an NRA B-8)
25: 88-1x (8/1/21) (25 yards two handed unsupported, untimed)
FYL L1@5: 9/10 (8/1/21) (“Find Your Level” Target, Level 1, 5 yards, untimed. Pass fail, 10/10 is a pass.
Very helpful, thank you.
I continue to prefer the Holosun circle only for EDC. This morning, I was messing around with a G45/508T in circle only and decided to shoot a one inch square, support hand only at 7 yards. That can be a bugger, as one hand makes it harder to hold the dot steady, combined with it being a small target. Here is the result.
Likes pretty much everything in every caliber.
Keep practicing, George. You will eventually get the hang of it!I continue to prefer the Holosun circle only for EDC. This morning, I was messing around with a G45/508T in circle only and decided to shoot a one inch square, support hand only at 7 yards. That can be a bugger, as one hand makes it harder to hold the dot steady, combined with it being a small target. Here is the result.
M48 has a 507K on it which I have set to circle only. Decided to shoot a match with it on the weekend to see how I felt about my capabilities with the gun. Had to shoot open with it as IPSC rules don't allow forward of the hip carry in any other division and the only holsters for it are AIWB ones. Decided to shoot concealed as well. The accuracy of the circle only was excellent on 35m Poppers and paper at all distances, speed of the set up is as good as i am capable of too.
FWIW I managed 66% of the countries top open shooter, which I will take with a subcompact minor scoring concealed carry gun versus a full on race Gun.
Welcome to Africa, bring a hardhat.
Bottom line/TLDR: pick a spot, hard focus on it and execute the shot.I continue to prefer the Holosun circle only for EDC. This morning, I was messing around with a G45/508T in circle only and decided to shoot a one inch square, support hand only at 7 yards. That can be a bugger, as one hand makes it harder to hold the dot steady, combined with it being a small target. Here is the result.
Boring and possibly off-base opinions follow:
It may be that there is room in this discussion to observe a few principles from a different sport with a few similar requirements.
In Olympic archery, open rings are used fairly commonly, particularly with shooters who find their shot execution timing is impaired by the struggle to hold a pin steady while holding a 50# string. The movement of a pin is much more apparent and can really cause serious execution issues in many shooters. The best pin shooters generally tend to shift focus during the draw, and hard focus on the target at the moment of execution. (Understand there are several other factors at play here but I’m keeping it simple for the purposes of pistol discussion).
It’s noteworthy that you have a total of 20 seconds to execute the shot with a bow at the Olympic Games, on a timer. So you don’t have time to “fix it” if you screw up during the execution. Mentally, it’s a lot like requiring a 2 second par ocular zone hit on a Gunsite option target, from the holster at 15 yards, every single time, 72 times in a row.
Open ring shooting with an Olympic bow requires a hard target focus while allowing the ring to blur out, and letting the eye’s natural ability to concentrically align circles in circles (targets are concentric rings) while shifting the mental focus to the execution of the shot (generally, moving the draw arm elbow). The result is much faster and smoother shot execution for most shooters, presuming no other mental issues.
(Note that in Olympic archery the target is 70 M away, but the same principles work for field archery which is shot between 12 and 60M. So the distance isn’t an issue here.)
There are a few differences and a few similarities between a mechanical ring on a bow (depending on shooter stature, typically located ~1-1.3 meters from the eye), and a ring on a reflex optic at any distance from the eye:
1. The reflex sight ring on the pistol will always be in focus. The mechanical ring on the bow will always be blurry if you are target focused (as you should be through the entire shot sequence).
2. The infinite focus of the reflex ring actually detracts from the principle of a hard target focus if you don’t discipline yourself to insist on picking a spot. It makes it difficult to prevent an attention shift from the ring to the target and back. Rings work best when, for want of a better term, you consciously ignore them.. You need to “burn a hole” with your focus on where you want the hit. This can take a bit of time.
Again, the most important principle of properly using a ring sight is to hard focus on the desired point of impact.
I personally feel that a target focus and properly timed “streak” with a dot works better for most high-speed pistol shooters, especially in transitions, and (not to put words in his keyboard, but apparently like GJM), I feel the main benefit of an RDS ring is more oriented to avoiding the foibles of dot sights with low sun angles.
I personally think that the process of getting the ring reticle of a reflex sight aligned to the desired impact point with a pistol will probably always take more time than “shooting the streak”. For USPSA and other “speed shooting” applications, correct use of a ring probably is not the answer.
But for precision (relatively slower, say 0.45 splits) shooting at small targets, with a hard target focus, I think the ring could be potentially much better for most people shooting offhand - just as it can be with a bow- IF there is a defined impact focal point visible in the target (x-ring, bullet hole, paster, etc.), or you have excellent mental discipline and can vividly imagine- “burn a hole”- at the impact point you desire, every time.
Purpose: EDC
Optic Options: Holosun 507C or Holosun 508T
Pistol: CZ P10S and/or P10C
Mount: Direct with BUIS
Which do you choose, and why?
Thanks.
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