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Thread: No limp wrist, but Muzzle bounce?

  1. #21
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    I got some better video of my grip,...

    ...I am about 250 rounds into the session at this point & I am definitely noticing fatigue.

    ... strange slipping of the thumb on my support hand. It drops down from it's higher support position during/after the recoil. I imagine I'm not focussed on squeezing hard enough with the support hand. Whether due to fatigue, or just generally sloppy technique? I suppose I need to get some video from earlier in a range session, before I'm getting tired to know for sure.

    ...Here's the grouping of this 15 round series.
    @Chomps:

    1. This video is virtually useless in diagnosing your grip. We need to see a closer video from the support side of the gun.

    2. If you're shooting 250 rounds straight just doing fairly slow splits shots on a target, I'm not surprised your hands are tired. I never practice this way.

    3. Above the hand-joint, my thumbs have nothing to do with the force of my grip. This does not seem like something to worry about. Maybe just take your thumbs away from the gun and focus on the rest of your grip?

    4. At the speed you're shooting splits, your group doesn't tell us much about your grip, and your grip may not have much to do with your group size. A good grip allows the gun to return consistently, so the sights remain on target. Shooting a 2sec Bill Drill, or the Doubles Drill, will diagnose that.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  2. #22
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    @Chomps:

    1. This video is virtually useless in diagnosing your grip. We need to see a closer video from the support side of the gun.

    2. If you're shooting 250 rounds straight just doing fairly slow splits shots on a target, I'm not surprised your hands are tired. I never practice this way.

    3. Above the hand-joint, my thumbs have nothing to do with the force of my grip. This does not seem like something to worry about. Maybe just take your thumbs away from the gun and focus on the rest of your grip?

    4. At the speed you're shooting splits, your group doesn't tell us much about your grip, and your grip may not have much to do with your group size. A good grip allows the gun to return consistently, so the sights remain on target. Shooting a 2sec Bill Drill, or the Doubles Drill, will diagnose that.
    Thanks everyone for all the input.

    @Clusterfrack I had to google what a Bill Drill was! I might not be allowed to do those drills at either of the two indoor ranges I visit. One will not allow any draw from concealment or rapid fire. The other will let me draw from concealment after being checked out by range master, but they also discourage any rapid fire.

    We don't seem to have the same training options available for shooting & firearms practice here in S.E. Michigan. I believe there are places where you are allowed to shoot on public land. But Im not sure where they are or what the rules are. Probably need to contact the MI DNR and see what they have to say. I don't know anyone with a big(ish) piece of rural land who shoots or is willing to let me shoot either. I've asked some of the guys I work with if there are any places to go & shoot steel or practice any practicle, defensive type shooting. Either they don't know or I guess they don't train that way. The few I've asked @ the range don't seem to know of any either.

    Guess I need to start another thread inquiring about any outdoor ranges or shooting within an hour or two of the suburban Detroit area. Lol.
    Last edited by Chomps; 04-26-2021 at 06:44 PM.

  3. #23
    Deadeye Dick Clusterfrack's Avatar
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    Glad to help, @Chomps. I guessed that was what was keeping you from doing other drills.

    After you send us the grip video, and can move past this concern, there are some productive things you can do in a lane with rapid fire restrictions. Here are a few that I thought of just now:

    -Targets of differing size and distance. Do not shoot the same target more than a few times. Get used to seeing what you need to see to make the shot depending on difficulty.
    -Multiple targets of differing size (can be on the same backer if there's a restriction).
    -Trigger press at speed. Aim on the target, and either using a random shot timer or a buddy, fire on the beep or "now". Press the trigger FAST. Learn how to keep the shot on target.

    And at current ammo prices, why not take a good class?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    Thanks everyone for all the input.

    @Clusterfrack I had to google what a Bill Drill was! I might not be allowed to do those drills at either of the two indoor ranges I visit. One will not allow any draw from concealment or rapid fire. The other will let me draw from concealment after being checked out with by range master, but they also discourage any rapid fire.

    We don't seem to have the same training options available for shooting & firearms practice here in S.E. Michigan. I believe there are places where you are allowed to shoot on public land. But Im not sure where they are or what the rules are. Probably need to contact the MI DNR and see what they have to say. I don't know anyone with a big(ish) piece of rural land who shoots or is willing to let me shoot either. I've asked some of the guys I work with if there are any places to go & shoot steel or practice any practicle, defensive type shooting. Either they don't know or I guess they don't train that way. The few I've asked @ the range don't seem to know of any either.

    Guess I need to start another thread inquiring if about any outdoor ranges or shooting within an hour or two of the suburban Detroit area. Lol.
    "You can never have too many knives." --Joe Ambercrombie
    Shabbat shalom, motherf***ers! --Mordechai Jefferson Carver

  4. #24
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    @Chomps

    Here’s a starting place for your search

    http://www.uspsamichigansection.org/

    ETA: looks like there’s one club within Detroit limits and two on the outskirts.

    It’s 2021 dude, google is your friend.
    Last edited by Caballoflaco; 04-26-2021 at 06:44 PM.
    im strong, i can run faster than train

  5. #25
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clusterfrack View Post
    Glad to help, @Chomps. I guessed that was what was keeping you from doing other drills.

    After you send us the grip video, and can move past this concern, there are some productive things you can do in a lane with rapid fire restrictions. Here are a few that I thought of just now:

    -Targets of differing size and distance. Do not shoot the same target more than a few times. Get used to seeing what you need to see to make the shot depending on difficulty.
    -Multiple targets of differing size (can be on the same backer if there's a restriction).
    -Trigger press at speed. Aim on the target, and either using a random shot timer or a buddy, fire on the beep or "now". Press the trigger FAST. Learn how to keep the shot on target.

    And at current ammo prices, why not take a good class?

    Once again,.. really appreciate the input.

    I have signed up for a MDFI basic shooting class that will meet in August. Im looking forward to it. It's titled " you suck, it's not the gun!"

    I have been and do vary my target distances during my range sessions. You're seeing my 5m/yd groups because they're the least embarrassing. Lol.

    Seriously tho. For a complete novice shooter, I think I do ok out to about 10m. (...just ok). But after that,.. it's sloppy and @25m? It's a crap shoot if I even hit the cardboard let alone the black. @ 25m my stock Glock front sight pretty much covers the whole silhouette. 🤷*♂️ I honestly don't know how you guys can shoot 2"-3" groups @ 25 yds. That's amazing to me.

    I should probably disclose that I haven't actually zeroed out either weapon yet. Ive only just started researching how to do that with a pistol.

    I should also ad, I have arthritis So my grip strength isn't what it used to be. And lastly, I have an astigmatism and my vision needs different correction for near & for far. After My last DOT physical, I have to have glasses for driving. I can focus well enough up close for the front sight. But I need reading glasses for books.

    None of this is meant to be excuses btw,.. just information regarding the physical limits & shortcomings I need to work around.


    ...and @Caballoflaco! Thanks for that link! 👍🏻
    Last edited by Chomps; 04-26-2021 at 07:26 PM.

  6. #26
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caballoflaco View Post
    @Chomps

    Here’s a starting place for your search

    http://www.uspsamichigansection.org/

    ETA: looks like there’s one club within Detroit limits and two on the outskirts.

    It’s 2021 dude, google is your friend.
    Name:  IMG_5662.jpg
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    Mine is Weak!!! . I searched for ranges,.. never occurred to me to look for "Clubs!"

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomps View Post
    I had to google what a Bill Drill was!
    There are a bunch of good drills here http://pistol-training.com/drills with printable targets. A good place to start is the 3X5 Card Drill. You can get packs of those in different colors at a lot of drug stores.

    How much dry fire practice are you doing?

  8. #28
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    @Chomps

    Two good Michigan training resources:,

    MDFI is a very well regarded training company which is based in Michigan and holds classes through out the state:

    https://trainmdfi.com

    Steve Fisher, the owner of Sentinel Concepts is also based in Michigan. While he is on the road most of the year I believe that during his winter “off season” he does 1 day classes at local ranges in MI.

    https://sentinelconcepts.com

  9. #29
    Member Chomps's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MickAK View Post
    There are a bunch of good drills here http://pistol-training.com/drills with printable targets. A good place to start is the 3X5 Card Drill. You can get packs of those in different colors at a lot of drug stores.

    How much dry fire practice are you doing?
    I'm haven't been doing a whole lot of dry fire until now. However, I did just receive the DryFire Mag for the Glock I ordered. It's not quite as realistic a replica of my G19's trigger press & break as I'd hoped,.. but it is convenient not to have to constantly rack the slide. And, I can definitely use it to see if Im deflecting the sights whenever I pull the trigger. Just need to set something up as a routine & start doing it.

    I will look into those drills, thanks!

  10. #30


    I highly recommend checking out this.
    "Shooting is 90% mental. The rest is in your head." -Nils

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