Columbus Ohio 04/20/21 OIS

[Sensei]

Several years ago a Lieutenant in my department came up with a 'pledge' that all officers were encouraged to recite together out loud. It was big not only on the issue of biased policing....it included overt and direct calls to not tolerate, and to confront, bias on the part of members of the public. I pointed out how grotesquely inappropriate the language of the pledge was in this regard, and that it was essentially calling for us to be Thought Police.

Fast forward a few years to now, and our soon to be adopted revised Use of Force policy. During the discussions and planning at the Training Division about the implementation of this policy, I pointed out how these changing priorities were the result of, and were causing, Moral Confusion. The Moral Calculus that has been part of our civilization for several centuries (i.e. Innocent life takes priority over the life of the criminal whose actions have caused the risk) is no longer 'valid'. The new calculus states that every life must be weighed equally from a law enforcement perspective....including the violent criminal actors. The fact that this makes Law Enforcement Use of Deadly force inherently immoral in all cases, and makes its use essentially 'criminal', is not in my opinion an unintended consequence.

During our brainstorming of various scenarios of how these policy changes would play out, there was widespread acknowledgement that these policies necessarily mean that we let some innocent people die, in order to avoid the use of deadly force. My fellow use of force instructors were, I'm ashamed to say, okay with that. That is just considered the new way we do business. There's a great deal of "Get on board or get left behind!" talk in these discussions. Getting on the reform train is seen as key to promotion....and that is becoming the entire point of a career in my agency.

This attitude is also, I fear, the result of the endless attacks on Law Enforcement throughout the last few years. I often hear talk about how LE has lost the public's trust. I'm here to tell you that cops don't at all trust the public in a lot of places anymore either. Which one do you think is a greater threat to a free society?

We are on a road to some bad shit, my friends. Unless the good people of our nation who just want to be left alone, get off their asses and get involved...and pretty damn quick...this is gonna spiral out of anybodys ability to control it. My 2 cents.

This is a really good post. It’s spot on in every regard.

Unfortunately, I’m in the isolationist camp. There are people who I’m responsible for that would be hurt if I publicly engaged in the current social war. Thus, I will not seek out conflict on any level.

I do wonder how long you will be able to work in that environment. I fear that a lot of cops want to leave but feel that they are past the point of no return. That is a horrible feeling - been there...done that.

[TheNewbie]

[trailrunner]

One of the comments was pretty funny:

Like playing Chess with a Pigeon. They'll strut around the board, knocking over all the pieces and crapping on everything, then declare victory.

[mmc45414]

Unfortunately, I’m in the isolationist camp. There are people who I’m responsible for that would be hurt if I publicly engaged in the current social war. Thus, I will not seek out conflict on any level.

Exactly, I do not have the right to potentially destroy my wife's business, or the desire to ostracize myself from people I may be selling to, just so that I can assert myself. I have significantly curtailed my use of social media accordingly, mostly because I really don't trust myself not to post hilarious shit like this:

Attachment 70545

[Wise_A]

From a practical standpoint, I think there's a strong lesson for Regular People Carrying Guns: don't help nobody.

Here we have a clearly, undeniably necessary use of force. The victim was tenths of a second away from being stabbed. The subject had previously announced her intention to stab her. All the elements are present: immediacy, unavoidability, intent, disparity of force (both size and armed/unarmed). And yet, where are the witnesses speaking up for the cop? Where is the victim? You can excuse these people--they have to live there, they're weak, scared, whatever. They're not speaking up. On the other hand, there are plenty of people out there denying that she was armed, even denying that knives are deadly weapons. These people are your potential witnesses, your potential jurors.

So the number of people I'll kill for is really small. Uniformed police, EMS, fire. Limited family only; my half-brothers are SOL but I'd pop a cap over my nephew depending on the situation (don't look at me like that, he's 14). Maybe some of my co-workers. The rest of you are on your own. Just the same as I don't expect anyone to help me.

[Shellback]

Officer Silvester has a plan: https://twitter.com/GuidoFawkes1976/...96485561823234

[jh9]

I haven't read through the thread, but it's pretty ridiculous when saving a life from a bad actor is a now controversial.

Controversial among a small number of loud idiots on twitter and the three people that own like all of the broadcast media versus controversial amongst the public at large are two different things, though. I don't know anyone that views this particular incident as anything other than "stabby person got shot, news at 11". I'll hazard a guess that I probably hang out with more liberal people than the average person here.

The whole "let them fight" argument is about as popular as "disband all ICE". It's a small number of very loud people on social media. Don't let that distort your perception of reality.

[blues]

Where's Obama complaining about how it's easier for kids to get knives than books?

Oh wait, it's only a teenage knife fight. Just kids being kids.

Nothing to see here.

[BehindBlueI's]

Controversial among a small number of loud idiots on twitter and the three people that own like all of the broadcast media versus controversial amongst the public at large are two different things, though. I don't know anyone that views this particular incident as anything other than "stabby person got shot, news at 11". I'll hazard a guess that I probably hang out with more liberal people than the average person here.

The whole "let them fight" argument is about as popular as "disband all ICE". It's a small number of very loud people on social media. Don't let that distort your perception of reality.

Squeaky wheels and grease. The quiet majority will not affect politicians and politicians, both elected and appointed, make laws and police policy.

You know how we often get the "will good cops do XXX when bad cops do YYY?" questions. Will the good citizens stand up for the police in as loud a form as the detractors will tear us down? No. So reality will be altered regardless because silent majorities may as well not exist in this realm.

[jh9]

Will the good citizens stand up for the police in as loud a form as the detractors will tear us down? No. So reality will be altered regardless because silent majorities may as well not exist in this realm.

Well... I do (somewhat relatively) often defend the police in not one but two different group texts with some of my friends. And the information I get here drives a lot of that.

FWIW, which may be nothing. It's not a blank check, but I'm receptive to new information or a new perspective if it's well-argued and well-reasoned.