Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 35

Thread: Stop and Think Series

  1. #11
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  2. #12
    Here's #4:




    Are you really safer carrying a TDA when AIWB?
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  3. #13
    Site Supporter David S.'s Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    DFW
    Are you tryyyyying to break the internet?

    I've personally chosen to shoot TDA for the reasons that Ernest Langdon and Darryl Bolke articulate. I train the decocking with purpose, and I make a point to decock "tactically" during competition.

    That said, I'd still be shooting a LEM if it wasn't so complicated and expensive to mount a RDS on an H&K.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by David S. View Post
    Are you tryyyyying to break the internet?

    I've personally chosen to shoot TDA for the reasons that Ernest Langdon and Darryl Bolke articulate. I train the decocking with purpose, and I make a point to decock "tactically" during competition.

    That said, I'd still be shooting a LEM if it wasn't so complicated and expensive to mount a RDS on an H&K.

    Langdon and Bolke are two guys who have dedicated time with the system and understand it. I'm addressing the casual user who thinks they are being safer by choosing TDA but, in effect, they aren't safer. I know they'll say, "I would never..." but are they truly putting in the dedicated training time?
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  5. #15
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    Texas
    I think there he makes some good points, and Jlw knows much more about shooting and guns than I.


    However,

    1. Warning Iím about to talk about how things ďfeelĒ. I didnít feel much difference between a Gen 5 Glock trigger and my P-07 in SA mode. If anything, the SA mode felt safer than the Gen 5 trigger. The Gen 5 is too light in my opinion, and the only way I would carry one is with a quality thumb safety or NY1 trigger.


    2. Even if I fail to decock, as long as I place my thumb over the hammer, any AD/ND issues should be greatly mitigated, if not eliminated.


    When I handle my TDA pistol in any way, I hit the decocker. This means off target, holstering after securing it at the jail, after cleaning or admin handling, changing holsters, etc. So this video was not really directed at those like me, but it doesnít hurt to hear the warnings again.

    I also agree that a DAO gun is a great option. Wish the P250 was still made, PX4s could more easily be found in DAO, Glock had a true DAO set up etc.

  6. #16
    I should add that de-cocking on the square range and getting it done under "hands on" conditions are two different things.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #17
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Erie County, NY
    Very interesting piece. So the issue is not decocking on reholstering. That is understandable from several perspectives:

    1. Not enough reps to establish the motor memory. That takes lots of effort. Using the term conscious competence as compared to unconscious. The conscious falls if you go fast. Different motor control systems.
    2. Finer motor patterns fade under stress. Having been in stressful training or real world incident, your attention is elsewhere and you just want to get the gun away, if appropriate to do.
    3. This is enhanced by the two affordances (configurations that draw the action in a certain fashion).
    a. The finger seeks the trigger. That's bad, so folks may leave on the trigger and trying to break that tendency and finger control might not leave capacity for another complex movement on the reholster.
    b. The gun seeks the holster and you want to that quickly and not divert to another movement if you need to quickly reholster.

    Worth what you paid for. Having almost having a 45 ACP in my foot from a guy holstering a 1911 at make ready in a match (I was score keeper), holstering is fun under stress. He was all excited.

    My fat old body is OWB, so this theoretical.

  8. #18
    Student
    Join Date
    Sep 2018
    Location
    Arizona

    no coffee yet

    I do remember John Johnston having a DAO full size LTT in class, which I believe is owned by Caleb Giddings now. I'd have to double check and ask but I think parts availability may have something to do with its rarity, probably because it is not (or maybe was not ever) a popular choice for a semi-auto trigger.

    From Greg's article:
    Overall, my conclusion is that when considering training efficiency, itís faster and easier to teach the shooter how to safely draw and holster a striker-fired pistol than it is to teach the same person how to safely manage a DA/SA trigger and decocker. Your mileage may vary.
    Thinking back to previous 'basic' classes i have assisted in, students have a hard enough time just learning to work the slide lever and get used to a proper grip. Any decocking discipline I don't address here, though, will surely become much harder to address if/when they ever move from the bench to a holster. At the same time, I usually tell folks online and in person who ask 'which one' questions that at I have seen a lot of people perform at high levels with pretty much everything.

    I won't pretend I have always covered this topic as well as I could have when I was starting out. At the very least I can say I never and never will be the instructor to reach over to a student's Beretta and cock it for them while telling them to start each string that way. I was that student once, and there are many others who were too.

    GJM can attest to my struggles with doing what I learned from reading Todd's writing on decocking, and running the the stage with gun in hand between arrays in Tim Herron's class. It has been a lot easier for me to agree with the idea of needing to separate contexts than it has been to practice that way, though I've gotten better.

    Looking forward to David Cagle's appearance.
    Last edited by Yung; 08-19-2021 at 10:32 AM.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yung View Post
    I do remember John Johnston having a DAO full size LTT in class, which I believe is owned by Caleb Giddings now. I'd have to double check and ask but I think parts availability may have something to do with its rarity, probably because it is not (or maybe was not ever) a popular choice for a semi-auto trigger.

    From Greg's article:


    Thinking back to previous 'basic' classes i have assisted in, students have a hard enough time just learning to work the slide lever and get used to a proper grip. Any decocking discipline I don't address here, though, will surely become much harder to address if/when they ever move from the bench to a holster. At the same time, I usually tell folks online and in person who ask 'which one' questions that at I have seen a lot of people perform at high levels with pretty much everything.

    I won't pretend I have always covered this topic as well as I could have when I was starting out. At the very least I can say I never and never will be the instructor to reach over to a student's Beretta and cock it for them while telling them to start each string that way. I was that student once, and there are many others who were too.

    GJM can attest to my struggles with doing what I learned from reading Todd's writing on decocking, and running the the stage in Tim Herron's class. It has been a lot easier for me to agree with the idea of needing to separate contexts than it has been to practice that way, though I've gotten better.

    Looking forward to David Cagle's appearance.

    I taught our Glock transition course back in the day, and I've taught plenty of newbies on the Glock and other striker fired pistols, and it certainly is 'easier" without the de-cock step. Students seem to be especially resistant to de-cocking when coming off of a target to a ready position.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  10. #20

    Reholstering a TDA

    Most of the advocates for TDA as an AIWB mitigation method like the idea of putting a thumb on the hammer. That's what the Gadget was replicating. A thumb on the hammer is a backstop for failing to decock, assuming the shooter can feel the difference between SA and DA. Maybe we're in a copy-of-a-copy situation where some folks missed the why behind TDA.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •