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Thread: Stop and Think Series

  1. #1

    Stop and Think Series

    #1: Class Safety Briefings

    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  2. #2
    Thanks for the post!

    Maybe it's because I know nothing at all about how the 911 operators work, but it seems to me like it's mainly a matter of setting a tone for the call and how the whole thing gets colored. You call and say "there's been a shooting at Blankety Blank Range!" And I imagine the 911 operator hitting the big red SWAT button before the conversation even continues. (I just said I know nothing at all about how 911 operators work. For all I know, they have a big red SWAT button. Why not? I'd want one. Seems cool. Maybe it should be blue instead. Still, for purposes of this post, I use the term merely metaphorically.) On the other hand, you call and say "there's been a training accident at Blankety Blank Range." And the 911 operator--hand not even twitching in the direction of the big blue SWAT button--goes, "at Blankety Blank Range, eh? Did this accident involve a gunshot wound?"

    I expect you could talk an operator down after setting the "shooting!" tone. But I expect you don't have to talk anyone down when you set the "accident" tone. So it's just a question of picking the easiest terms to work with. That's how I've understood the distinction up to now. I have never called 911 in my life, so it's not based on knowledge. Is this inaccurate?
    Last edited by Moylan; 04-20-2021 at 08:57 AM.
    O judgment! Thou art fled to brutish beasts, And men have lost their reason.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Moylan View Post
    Thanks for the post!

    Maybe it's because I know nothing at all about how the 911 operators work, but it seems to me like it's mainly a matter of setting a tone for the call and how the whole thing gets colored. You call and say "there's been a shooting at Blankety Blank Range!" And I imagine the 911 operator hitting the big red SWAT button before the conversation even continues. (I just said I know nothing at all about how 911 operators work. For all I know, they have a big red SWAT button. Why not? I'd want one. Seems cool. Maybe it should be blue instead. Still, for purposes of this post, I use the term merely metaphorically.) On the other hand, you call and say "there's been a training accident at Blankety Blank Range." And the 911 operator--hand not even twitching in the direction of the big blue SWAT button--goes, "at Blankety Blank Range, eh? Did this accident involve a gunshot wound?"

    I expect you could talk an operator down after setting the "shooting!" tone. But I expect you don't have to talk anyone down when you set the "accident" tone. So it's just a question of picking the easiest terms to work with. That's how I've understood the distinction up to now. I have never called 911 in my life, so it's not based on knowledge. Is this inaccurate?

    What I am attempting to address is the notion that simply stating "training accident" will be magic words that ensures that EMS will slide to a stop in time to save the day. I am hoping to get people to realize that there will be follow-up questions, particularly about the nature of the wound, and it is going to be obvious that guns are somehow involved.

    By all means, specify that there is no hostile act and that there is no ongoing threat.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  4. #4
    Some of my local ranges are pretty straight forward about it, along the lines of "We have had an accident involving a firearm at such and such range, details etc".
    Our call center people are smart enough to get it (60% chance it was a local officer making the call anyway)

    Being clear and upfront seems to be the best policy for these incidents.

    If for some reason the swat ninjas roll in, the overall scene should be a big clue and EMS would have been no more than a mile behind them.

  5. #5
    Site Supporter SeriousStudent's Avatar
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    Thanks very much, Lee! I will look forward to watching and reading more of these in the the future.

  6. #6
    Here is the second video in the series:

    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  7. #7
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    @jlw - thanks for posting these.

    The second video brings a question: When an Officer is dealing with a subject who is determined to be a threat and is likely about to hurt or kill someone -- maybe the Officer or someone else -- but the Officer is still in that phase in which he or she is yelling commands at the subject (to put down the weapon for example) will the Officer in that moment likely still have his or her own weapon in a ready position or will it be in a firing position? In other words, in the case of a LEO, does pointing the gun at a subject always mean the trigger will be pressed? I know I've seen videos in which an Officer is pointing a gun at a subject and still yelling commands, but I'm not qualified to judge whether that's right or wrong -- thus my question.

    I can imagine scenarios -- in a self defense situation -- where a very quick judgement call must be made on whether to bring one's gun into a firing position or keep it at low ready.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Robinson View Post
    @jlw - thanks for posting these.

    The second video brings a question: When an Officer is dealing with a subject who is determined to be a threat and is likely about to hurt or kill someone -- maybe the Officer or someone else -- but the Officer is still in that phase in which he or she is yelling commands at the subject (to put down the weapon for example) will the Officer in that moment likely still have his or her own weapon in a ready position or will it be in a firing position? In other words, in the case of a LEO, does pointing the gun at a subject always mean the trigger will be pressed? I know I've seen videos in which an Officer is pointing a gun at a subject and still yelling commands, but I'm not qualified to judge whether that's right or wrong -- thus my question.

    I can imagine scenarios -- in a self defense situation -- where a very quick judgement call must be made on whether to bring one's gun into a firing position or keep it at low ready.
    Muzzle on meat does not mean that the trigger will be pressed. However, it is a question as to what is legal. Is it legal to actually point (muzzle on meat) a firearm at someone without having met the legal mandates to use deadly force?
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  9. #9
    A Study of Ready addresses many of my thoughts on ready positions, etc.
    I had an ER nurse in a class. I noticed she kept taking all head shots. Her response when asked why, "'I've seen too many people who have been shot in the chest putting up a fight in the ER." Point taken.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlw View Post
    Muzzle on meat does not mean that the trigger will be pressed. However, it is a question as to what is legal. Is it legal to actually point (muzzle on meat) a firearm at someone without having met the legal mandates to use deadly force?
    No, not in my understanding. I get your point.

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