Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Best Practices for Stamp and Trust?

  1. #1
    Site Supporter
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    Central Front Range, CO

    Best Practices for Stamp and Trust?

    BLUF / TLDR - how do you handle the paperwork requirements for an NFA item in your possession?

    I just got my Form 4 stamp for a can. It’s assigned to a trust.

    So...

    I’m pretty clear that I need to have a copy of the stamp in my possession anytime I’m using the suppressor. I’m imagining a small version that I’d put in the Magpul grip of the AR that the can is on. Probably another copy in the carrier pouch for the suppressor.
    Do I need a copy of the trust along with me, with the stamp whenever the suppressor is there? Or is the stamp enough?

    I’m thinking that the original stamp needs to be kept in a very secure place, with scanned images stored in the cloud.

    Same with the trust?

    And what is the process to add members to the trust? Is is a visit to the Silencer Shop kiosk, and a background investigation? Or less than that? Figuring I’d add my wife initially, and each child as they reach 18. I’m open to suggestions here.

  2. #2
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    TX
    All my stuff is in an LLC, but I don't carry anything around showing that I'm an LLC member. I do carry reduced-size laminated form copies around in a small ring binder, but I have not had anyone even ask to see them in over a decade. The originals are in my safe deposit box.

  3. #3
    Site Supporter OlongJohnson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    "carbine-infested rural (and suburban) areas"
    Jim Willi in Austin includes a form with his trust package that allows you to make someone a trustee just by filling it out and having it notarized by any notary public. You can put an automatic end date on it, which would be convenient if you want to make your hunting partner a trustee for the duration of a planned hunting trip, for example. If I remember, there is another form that can undesignate a trustee.
    .
    -----------------------------------------
    Not another dime.

  4. #4
    My understanding is there is no actual legal written guidance. What you both are discussing are excellent techniques. I keep laminated small copies in my range bag. Originals kept in a safe place. I also encourage you to photograph them and keep photographs on your phone and backed up.
    "Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master"

  5. #5
    Smoke Bomb / Ninja Vanish Chance's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    I am also curious to hear how folks handle this, as I'm brand new to NFA items. The guys at the FFL said I could just keep a picture of the stamp on my phone, which immediately led to the question, "Who is going to ask to see the stamp and why?"
    "Sapiens dicit: 'Ignoscere divinum est, sed noli pretium plenum pro pizza sero allata solvere.'" - Michelangelo

  6. #6
    Site Supporter gringop's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Central Texas
    A pdf copy of the stamp in my phone, a paper copy in an envelope in my clipboard that is always in my range bag.

    If an ATF agent asks to see it, I have it. Everyone else can politely fuck off.

    If it comes down to a non-ATF cop threating to arrest me, I will show it to him but he will get educated to politely fuck off.

    Re. the trust, no one gets to see it but the ATF.

    Gringop
    Play that song about the Irish chiropodist. Irish chiropodist? "My Fate Is In Your Hands."

  7. #7
    Site Supporter Elwin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
    Location
    Midwest
    I’m an attorney and I’ve done some work with NFA trusts. Obviously the stamp is required, but I’d recommend having a copy of the trust handy if at all practical. The stamp shows that the trust validly owns the item. It doesn’t do anything to demonstrate you as an individual can legally possess it, without a copy of the trust in addition.

    As for adding members, talk to an attorney who is familiar with your trust and the trust laws of your state.

  8. #8
    Site Supporter CleverNickname's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Chance View Post
    I am also curious to hear how folks handle this, as I'm brand new to NFA items. The guys at the FFL said I could just keep a picture of the stamp on my phone, which immediately led to the question, "Who is going to ask to see the stamp and why?"
    Range officers if you shoot at a range who think they have some obligation to make sure a firearm is legally possessed (not that it wouldn't be trivial to photoshop a fake form.) Maybe a game warden if you hunt. Maybe an LEO if you get pulled over and your car is searched for some reason.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by GyroF-16 View Post
    BLUF / TLDR - how do you handle the paperwork requirements for an NFA item in your possession?

    I just got my Form 4 stamp for a can. It’s assigned to a trust.

    So...

    I’m pretty clear thatI need to have a copy of the stamp in my possession anytime I’m using the suppressor. I’m imagining a small version that I’d put in the Magpul grip of the AR that the can is on. Probably another copy in the carrier pouch for the suppressor.
    Do I need a copy of the trust along with me, with the stamp whenever the suppressor is there? Or is the stamp enough?

    I’m thinking that the original stamp needs to be kept in a very secure place, with scanned images stored in the cloud.

    Same with the trust?

    And what is the process to add members to the trust? Is is a visit to the Silencer Shop kiosk, and a background investigation? Or less than that? Figuring I’d add my wife initially, and each child as they reach 18. I’m open to suggestions here.
    You do not need to have a copy of anything with you. That said if you live in a less than friendly state and/or are prone to getting in trouble/pulled over/harassed by the cops or whatever if you have a photo copy of the stamp it might cause you less trouble, but probably not.

    In a worst case scenario if the cops haul you to jail they could take possession of your cans/NFA guns until they establish that you are the rightful owner. That's like if you get arrested or some other stuff like that. In that case a photo copy might help smooth it over and give them a lead on where to look but that's about all you will accomplish by carrying around anything.

    To add someone to the trust depends on your state laws. Where I am at I can just contact the place I purchased the generic trust from (in my case Coyote Rifleworks) and pay a little fee for them to amend the trust documents. I would imagine it requires re-signing everything with a notary but that's about it.

    If you want to purchase another NFA item with an amended trust you will need to resubmit the trust paperwork to Silencer Shop after it's done.

    Some states require that you file trusts with the county records or whatever. In that case after the lawyer/gun trust company amends it you will file it where ever that needs to happen. In my state there is no such requirement so after someone is added or taken off it's done. I just need to give a copy of the new amended trust to Silencer Shop so they file for stamps with the new updated information.

User Tag List

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •