2012-13 PTC Test Guns - Springfield 9mm 1911

[Tango]

Todd,

Have you had any contact with Springfield Armory in regards to your testing? I would think that a $2000+ gun coming out of their shop having this many malfunctions would be a black eye. Why would I spend $2000 on a 9MM custom 1911 when I can get a HKP30 for half the cost? If I were them, I'd be on the phone to you pretty quickly. They put out some fantastic 45ACP pieces but I'm still up in the air about their 9MM offering.

With all that said, I would love to see you test a 1911 in 45ACP for an entire year just like the HK45. Something along the lines of a Springfield MC Operator or Colt Rail Gun. That's easy to say though, because it's not my wrists and elbows!

[JV_]

Have you had any contact with Springfield Armory in regards to your testing?

http://pistol-forum.com/showthread.p...ll=1#post86541

[Wes Peart]

Can you order this gun built on a non railed TRP frame? Thinking about plunking down a deposit on one as a present to myself before my ship date.

[JHC]

It appears you're suffering a stoppage about every 2000 rounds on average? I'd be curious to see how long it would go with just regular lubing and less cleaning. Seems like it doesn't like being squeaky clean?

OMG don't encourage him! (just kidding based on the legendary round counts between cleanings of the polymer wonder guns)

But it will be interesting it that pattern holds.

[ToddG]

Because if the ammo I'm using, I feel obligated to clean at least the barrel after every session.

Wes -- I'm certain you could get anything you want from the Custom Shop, but the Warren guns specifically are based on railed frames.

[ToddG]

I'm hoping to write a more detailed update for my site tomorrow assuming I find time to do some mediocre photography.

I just now finished putting the gun back together after detail stripping it for the first time. In fact, it's the first time I've ever detail stripped a 1911 or even been in the presence of a detail stripped 1911 (except, I suppose, while walking through the assembly area at SIG back in the day). I had an absolutely horrible time getting the thumb safety installed, but after half an hour of reading online & going through books with no success I realized that the hammer wasn't staying cocked. Why wouldn't the hammer stay cocked when everything was assembled but the thumb safety? Sure enough, I hadn't kept the sear spring in place while inserting the mainspring housing.

Once that clicked (literally), it was as easy as you'd expect. I put a thin coating of TW25B in some key contact spots and the result is a much cleaner trigger with a 4 pound 6 ounce break (down from 4 and 12 when the test began).

[ToddG]

Major Drama

I've been carrying the same loaded mags (Wilson ETM) for two months so today I thought I'd begin my session with some deliberate bullseye to use up the ammo and replace it with new.

First round out of the gun resulted in a stoppage, as the next round crashed nose first, horizontal, into the feed ramp.

Tap, Rack. Fire. Second round resulted in a stoppage, same exact thing.

The first two rounds out of the gun, exactly as I'd carried it, both resulted in feed failures.

On the second magazine, the third or fourth round had another identical stoppage, this time shooting SHO. The third mag, fired WHO, had no stoppages.

Suffice to say, three stoppages with my carry ammo, out of my carry mags, in the span of just 31 rounds was upsetting. My first thought was that I had reassembled the gun incorrectly somehow. The other possibility was that the mags were insufficient to stay loaded for two months straight.

Further shooting with the same mags turned up no additional signs of trouble. However, the ETM mags have always been unforgiving of reduce slide velocity when closing home (as mentioned by others previously in terms of slowly racking the slide by hand to load the gun). So I swapped out the 12# recoil spring for a 14# variable for the remainder of my short practice session. No other stoppages were noted.

More than a little panicked by the apparent failure of my carry gun, I called Jason Burton of Heirloom Precision for his assessment and advice. He concurred that it was unlikely anything I had done in assembly. He also stated that while the mag design might have played some role, it was not the main culprit. His rough guess was that the recoil spring probably wasn't doing all it should and that changing to a 14# -- which is what he'd recommended to me from the beginning -- would fix the problem. The fact that switching to the 14# spring coincided with a return to normal function was comforting.

I'll be shooting 50 or so more rounds of HST through the gun at the KSTG match tomorrow and we'll see how that goes.

[BaiHu]

Major Drama

I've been carrying the same loaded mags (Wilson ETM) for two months so today I thought I'd begin my session with some deliberate bullseye to use up the ammo and replace it with new....REDACTED FOR EASE OF READING.............I'll be shooting 50 or so more rounds of HST through the gun at the KSTG match tomorrow and we'll see how that goes.

Glad this is a story that happened at the range and not 'on the street, yo!'

[TCinVA]

...and that's kind of why many of us advise people away from 1911's. When we say they can be "finicky", this is what we're talking about. If you're as smart about them as Jason or BLR then you don't really need much in the way of advice.

[BLR]

...and that's kind of why many of us advise people away from 1911's. When we say they can be "finicky", this is what we're talking about. If you're as smart about them as Jason or BLR then you don't really need much in the way of advice.

I'm certainly not in the same league as Mr. Burton. I'm a (generally) well meaning amateur. All this is stress relief for me.

Nose dives are more often than not a result of mag springs. 9mm mag springs are notorious for early failure of this type. So are 8rd 45 mags. Whereas 7 rd 45 mags can stay loaded for decades without any trouble. If you are running ETMs, they are anti-tip followers. Meaning you are compressing the mag spring in order to make the round nose dive. As long as your breech face is ok, the extractor tension ok, the mag spring should be strong enough to prevent this from happening.

What you are experiencing is really just a result of running a 9mm 1911. You are on the very edge of reliability when everything is fresh (springs) and lubed. How often are you changing mag springs? Do your springs have a deep blue color? You want to track your mags - buy new springs and measure their length. When you take them apart to clean them, measure their length. Monitor the change in length over time. It's the only way to be sure you catch this before it becomes a problem. FYI - spring steel = crap for mags.

I'd ping WilsonCombatRep on this. His 9mm experience far, far out stripps mine.

You really need to be running chrome silicon springs.

ETA - I'd really consider WCRs advise on the 10# spring. He made a compelling argument for it to me on the phone recently. It very much helps ejection be more positive.