Adam Toledo Shooting - Chicago, IL

[RJ]

I designed and taught a Train the Trainer “knife safety” class for the University of Scouting as one of my Wood Badge tasks. It’s been a while but I believe it still starts with Bear Scouts, who are in third grade or 9 years old to earn a Whittlin’ Chip Card.

I will say, as a retired Cubmaster and Den Leader, teaching the kids was pretty easy, but worrying about the Helicopter Parents, geez. Some of them positively swooned at the prospect of handing little Jimmy a pocketknife. They fix me with a stare, and huffily ask, but won’t he cut himself?! I’d usually reply, well, yeah, but only once.

[TAZ]

Bingo!

The whole point now is to burn it down.

From Chaos comes Order.

Burn it down or in the least make it so bad that people clamor for the government to do something. Been done across the globe numerous times. You just need a good set of useful idiots to mage it happen. Well, the USA is loaded with them these days.

[Suvorov]

Burn it down or in the least make it so bad that people clamor for the government to do something. Been done across the globe numerous times. You just need a good set of useful idiots to mage it happen. Well, the USA is loaded with them these days.

It’s a formula as long as tyranny.

[entropy]

Bingo!



From Chaos comes Order.

Entropy

[Jared]

Putting the shooting thing on back burner for a while, this is a messed up society.
When I was 13, forget gun, even carrying a pocket knife would be a big no no.
I know it's Chicago where guns are cheaper than a case of beer but this kid is just started to be a teen and already carrying firearm (or hanging with kids that carry firearm).

The age came to light after the incident and I've seen some kids that age bigger than grown ups.

When I was 13 I carried a Swiss Army knife everywhere that wasn’t school and was pretty decent at busting clay birds with a 12 gauge Remington 1100. At 14 I handed my father the $450 I had saved up and in return was handed a brand spanking new Colt M1991A1 Government Model, cal. 45ACP (because Jeff Cooper was my idol back then). I was not allowed to handle that Colt unless I was under his direct supervision, and I knew damn well that if I broke that rule I’d never see the pistol again. I also didn’t t know the combination to his gun safe. Even at that, the thought of misusing that pistol never crossed my mind.

In all my years of school I got precisely one detention (for wearing a Hooters T-Shirt in High School), never used drugs, never got arrested, nothing. Now I realize this kid is in Chicago and I was out on a farm, but still. Parenting plays a much bigger role in maturity and responsibility than age does.

[luckyman]

Putting the shooting thing on back burner for a while, this is a messed up society.
When I was 13, forget gun, even carrying a pocket knife would be a big no no.
I know it's Chicago where guns are cheaper than a case of beer but this kid is just started to be a teen and already carrying firearm (or hanging with kids that carry firearm).

The age came to light after the incident and I've seen some kids that age bigger than grown ups.

I’ve carried a knife since I was 8 I think. That was part of how you measured yourself as a trusted member of the clan who could hang out with the grown-ups. Plus you had to show that you were absolutely trustworthy with a knife before they let you handle a gun. That’s part of the current problem IMO. No emphasis on proving yourself responsible to participate in adult stuff; no cutting yourself once with a pocketknife to learn never to break a safety rule again.

Edited to add: well that’s the idea anyway. We won’t talk about the knife scar I have from a “mishap” a couple of years ago [emoji1]

[Glenn E. Meyer]

We played "mumblety-peg" on the streets of Brooklyn in sight of the Moms and Dads who sat outside the houses in then evening. The knife was from my father. No big deal then.

I think a good human factors, UOF expert analysis will prevent any criminal charges. The city might pay out as usual.

My wife and I think it is reasonable to look to the parents and charge them (if they are together or whomever had the kid) for some kid of child neglect. No way my 13 is out at that time. Don't tell me it was the first time.

Back to the civil case, given that the kid was out then, I wouldn't give the parents a cent. They have part of the blame.

Of course, it is horrible that a kid that edge gets into such a place so I'm not going to put much on him. The 20 year and parents - yep, justice should be done.

[BobM]

I will say, as a retired Cubmaster and Den Leader, teaching the kids was pretty easy, but worrying about the Helicopter Parents, geez. Some of them positively swooned at the prospect of handing little Jimmy a pocketknife. They fix me with a stare, and huffily ask, but won’t he cut himself?! I’d usually reply, well, yeah, but only once.

Then they could work on their first aid badges.

[Joe in PNG]

We played "mumblety-peg" on the streets of Brooklyn in sight of the Moms and Dads who sat outside the houses in then evening. The knife was from my father. No big deal then.

I think a good human factors, UOF expert analysis will prevent any criminal charges. The city might pay out as usual.

My wife and I think it is reasonable to look to the parents and charge them (if they are together or whomever had the kid) for some kid of child neglect. No way my 13 is out at that time. Don't tell me it was the first time.

Back to the civil case, given that the kid was out then, I wouldn't give the parents a cent. They have part of the blame.

Of course, it is horrible that a kid that edge gets into such a place so I'm not going to put much on him. The 20 year and parents - yep, justice should be done.

The "Should Happens" are personally uncomfortable and politically hazardous. Very few people can look at themselves in a mirror and accept that they're the bad guy- and less can accept being told that by someone else.

Instead, the usual suspect will trot out the usual scapegoats, and the usual useless panaceas will be prescribed, and the usual mass slaughter of minorities by minorities will continue unheralded.

[Lex Luthier]

The "Should Happens" are personally uncomfortable and politically hazardous. Very few people can look at themselves in a mirror and accept that they're the bad guy- and less can accept being told that by someone else.

Instead, the usual suspect will trot out the usual scapegoats, and the usual useless panaceas will be prescribed, and the usual mass slaughter of minorities by minorities will continue unheralded.

I was listening to NPR this afternoon on my way back from buying guitar-related superglue and 5.56 cartridges*
and there was a piece on Adam Toledo, his family, and his neighborhood...the kid's mom is getting a *ton* of flak from the community. Apparently the Mexican immigrants in that section of Chicago are utterly fed up with the gang presence and are publicly holding her responsible. It's bad enough that she's moved her family out of their place and has lawyered up. Said lawyer was quoted in the piece. I was quite surprised to hear it.





*PMC Bronze, Winchester White Box, PPU, Sellier & Bellot, all 55 gr ball, all $20/20, only one box per customer (!). I went PMC Bronze since I know it's re-packaged Taiwanese M193.
The glue?