I agree. The officer initiating the stop decides when and where the stop takes place. If someone slow rolls until the next parking lot that is somewhat reasonable. This guy went a mile. The officers were within their rights to handle this as a high-risk stop. Additionally, the army officer resisted the officers by failing to exit the vehicle, which he is bound to do by Mimms v. Pennsylvania. The police should have charged him accordingly. The army officer was in the wrong all the way around.
A very long time ago a friend and I were leaving a party at night and were pulled over by two police vehicles. Two police officers approached my vehicle with weapons drawn. I guess that was one of those "felony stops". We were ordered out of the vehicle and hand cuffed. As we were on our way to jail I asked what the charge was. Armed robbery I was told. I asked a few more questions but didn't get any answers. I then said it might be a good idea to check out our story before we were processed. So they did and got several people to back it up. We were at a friends house from about 8 pm to about 1 am and never left. I guess we more or less fit the description of two white males and happened to be on an island when the crime was committed. The police took my keys and I didn't get them back until about 2 hours after they released us on the side of the road. I don't think that was a mistake.
I don't know about anyone else, but I get a little nervous when people start screaming and pointing a gun at me.
Last edited by Borderland; 04-12-2021 at 09:35 AM.
In the P-F basket of deplorables.
Which probably begs the question why are we using the same pretext to interact with two completely different cases:
1) Joe Citizen has a busted tail light. Here is a ticket for $50. Get it fixed.
2) Shady McFuckhead has a busted tail light, two bricks of cocaine, eighty gigs of child porn, a rocket launcher and a glass dildo. Here is the legal entry point to finding cause to investigate and then arresting this guy on a bunch of felony charges.
Ten years ago the idea that bodycams would be common was considered implausible. Why are cops still walking up to the driver in person? I know people are going to shit on the thought as another visit from the good idea fairy but why aren't we at least considering some sort of quadcopter drone with a camera, speaker and a box for the drivers license / insurance cards to replace the initial contact?
I don't want to sound glib, but it sounds like we're at a crossroads where both the driver and the officer are concerned about their safety because of the other guy and it's going to keep making the news as long as these incidents happen regardless of how low the percentages are when compared to total police interactions with the public. Why are we not thinking in terms of how to remove that in-person interaction entirely?
It seems very high risk and low reward in most cases. Does having an ink signature on a speeding ticket matter that much? If so, does it need to? It's not like I'm paying the fine on the side of the road anyway.
My initial take on the one cop ramping up the aggressiveness of the verbal commands was clearly because the guy was failing to comply on a felony stop. When a felony stop subject fails to comply, you don't say, "Oh ok, well, have a good night, you don't want to comply so I guess I'll just go away." You force compliance.
You know what the difference between all the sovereign citizen videos and this guy is? He happens to be black. The results are exactly the same for whites pulling this bullshit, though....just as it was for me when I decided it'd be a good idea to run from the cops as a 16y/o white male when they were investigating a reported shooting by a white male teenager. Maybe that's why I don't like 3rd Gen S&Ws these days, since it's what was trained on me by the cops
Why would it give you pause though? That LT was emphatically not being a good guy. He was being shady as fuck, actually. If an officer initiates a felony stop and you don't comply, everything you're doing is going to be rightfully assessed as deceptive. There was a video recently in the OIS thread showing the coworker of one of our P-F.com members being executed by a subject feigning compliance, to put it into perspective.
It's no different for plainclothes cops who get a good guy halo over their head and think the responding uniforms know they're a cop, ignoring their commands and getting pissed off they won't acknowledge him as a fellow good guy. It doesn't matter what the fuck you think in your head about being a good guy; it matters if you're actually presenting/acting like a good guy. Take for instance that ATF agent that got proned out, tased and cuffed. Did those cops do it to him because he was black? No, he was white.....they did it to him because he was being fucking dumb.
"Are you ready? Okay. Let's roll."- Last words of Todd Beamer
There's lots of ways to make a dick cop stop being a dick, but absolutely none from the inside of a vehicle.
Unfortunately people feel safe and powerful in their cars, so this will probably continue to be an issue.
A couple of random points on my perception. If he's so fucking worried about getting stopped, why not make sure his car is 100% unlikely to get stopped? I get the sovereign vibe because the dash cam in my Tacoma is focused outboard. His was on him. Sovereign citizens come in all colors. Of course he could be worried because he's black, but we're back to square one of not driving with violations, plus he's halfway to a free pass just because he's in the military.
I don't disagree with you on the perception, or that it needs to be addressed. I like to think I would have done better talking to the guy than the two officers involved, but if he had done all the same things, I'd also have charged him and let the prosecutor or judge sort it out.
As far as changing the larger perspective, we need to stop the dog whistles over every LE encounter. Here's a flash for everybody: nobody likes dealing with LE, just the same as no one likes the IRS. LE "customers" are usually unhappy with their police service because it puts an end to whatever happy shit they do on a daily basis. The media is fanning the flames, and I don't know how you get them to stop. "LT nearly killed by police" sells more than the reality that most people stop and take their ticket like an adult.
"Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA
Beware of my temper, and the dog that I've found...