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Thread: Army officer sues Virginia police over violent traffic stop

  1. #81
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    Army officer sues Virginia police over violent traffic stop

    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    How many times have you seen an explanation magically make a person comply? That's not usually how that works.
    It usually just elicits more questions from the person in question, to be sure. But, it can have the effect of improving the «optics» for the officer, in person and on video.

    From my personal experience:

    «Why did you tackle me?!?» (as arrestee’s friends start gathering around and my backup is not close)

    «Because we’re on the second floor and you were running full speed toward a steep metal fire escape with your hands handcuffed behind your back.»

    I think a lightbulb actually went off for some spectators.

  2. #82
    Site Supporter Hambo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GyroF-16 View Post
    I’m extremely sympathetic to the LT here.
    Cops have pulled him over, and are suddenly pointing guns at him.
    He’s asking reasonable questions.
    He has a gun beside his seat, and is being told:
    Be as sympathetic as you like, but I hope you're smarter than he was. Whatever the tag situation was, it was no big deal until he refused to stop. Then he started out with a bunch of bullshit. He did everything but say he was traveling freely. Here, he could have been charged with improper display of tag, failure to yield (or possibly eluding), resisting without violence, possibly resisting with violence ("violence" doesn't have to be a full on fight), and obstruction at the least.

    He could have had an encounter that ended with, "put the tag where it's visible, have a good night, and thanks for your service." Instead, he made decisions that initiated a very different encounter. He gets no sympathy from me.
    "Gunfighting is a thinking man's game. So we might want to bring thinking back into it."-MDFA

  3. #83
    If the Army officer was indeed looking for a payday, he played it smarter than the cops, whom did not play it smart, and are almost certainly out of their jobs, unfortunately.

    It’s open season on cops across the country.
    #RESIST

  4. #84
    One cop fired. I note that all of the articles make a point of saying how the Army officer is “Latino and Black”, but skip over over one of the cops (Gutierrez) being almost certainly Latino.

    https://apple.news/AbHeRuUkIQlSQZQ-4KmpFtQ


    One of two police officers accused of pepper-spraying and pointing their guns at a Black US army officer during a traffic stop has been fired, a Virginia town announced late on Sunday, hours after the governor called for an independent investigation.

    Saying it took the action because it “prides itself in its small-town charm and the community wide respect of its police department”, the town of Windsor said it joined calls from elected officials, including Governor Ralph Northam, in requesting an investigation by Virginia state police.

    In the December 2020 encounter, two officers are accused of drawing their guns, pointing them at army second lieutenant Caron Nazario and using a slang term to suggest he was facing execution.

    Nazario, who is Black and Latino, was also pepper-sprayed and knocked to the ground by the officers, Joe Gutierrez and Daniel Crocker, according to the lawsuit he filed earlier this month against them.

    The two sides in the case dispute what happened but Crocker wrote in a report that he believed Nazario was “eluding police” and he considered it a “high-risk traffic stop”. Attorney Jonathan Arthur said Nazario wasn’t trying to elude the officer but was trying to stop in a well-lit area.

    In a statement on Sunday, Windsor officials said an internal investigation opened at the time determined department policy wasn’t followed. Officials said disciplinary action was taken and Gutierrez had since been fired.

    Officials added that department-wide requirements for additional training were implemented, beginning in January.

    “The town of Windsor prides itself in its small-town charm and the community wide respect of its police department,” the statement said.

    “Due to this, we are saddened for events like this to cast our community in a negative light. Rather than deflect criticism, we have addressed these matters with our personnel administratively, we are reaching out to community stakeholders to engage in dialogue, and commit ourselves to additional discussions in the future.”

    Northam called the encounter “disturbing”, adding that he directed state police to investigate.

    “Our commonwealth has done important work on police reform, but we must keep working to ensure Virginians are safe during interactions with police, the enforcement of laws is fair and equitable, and people are held accountable,” Northam said.

    The Windsor police chief didn’t respond to messages sent through the police department’s Facebook page over the weekend. Windsor is about 70 miles south-east of Richmond, the state capital.
    #RESIST

  5. #85
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    I knew a situation like this would become a reality.

    We are now at a point where a relatively minor traffic stop is national fucking news.

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by fixer View Post
    I knew a situation like this would become a reality.

    We are now at a point where a relatively minor traffic stop is national fucking news.
    Things have changed. Cops need to be wary and on point.
    #RESIST

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Hambo View Post
    He gets no sympathy from me.
    Well, that's the crux isn't it. If not from sympathy from you, then from the public at large.

    Perception is reality. Optics matter. And the perception, whether you think it's well-founded or not, is that a growing swath of the American public thinks interacting with LE is playing a game of Simon Says where getting it wrong means getting your brains scattered across the pavement. Things like this don't help. Had it ended like the Shaver/Brailsford incident did cities would be on fire.

    Sovereign citizen vibes or not, you've got someone who has their temporary tag in the wrong place but is otherwise in compliance with the law. The rub seems to be not stopping soon enough. You might think he's getting ready to fight/flee/destroy evidence but the average viewer watching that video is, more and more, going to think he's not wrong for trying to get to a well-lit gas station so at least there's video/witnesses of him getting executed.

    That perception has to be addressed.

  8. #88
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    A good friend of mine who goes to my church was shot 4 times (1 stopped by the vest) a few months back. He's in the local Sheriff's Dept and was stopping a guy for a minor traffic infraction at 2 a.m. He gets to carry a bullet next to his spine and never regain full use of a couple of his left fingers. Perp shot him up as he approached and then sped off, leaving him laying on the ground.

    You're darned if you do, darned if you don't.

  9. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by TGS View Post
    I'll be honest that I felt a similar reaction.

    Playing barracks lawyer on the side of the road is not "reasonable", in reference to you defending him "asking the police reasonable questions". You don't have a right to conduct court on the side of the road; you are legally obliged to obey the officer's commands, and no, they don't owe you an explanation to your satisfaction before you have to do anything.

    It especially struck me when your conclusion was that this is from racism. As @TC215 said, this is a natural progression from a suspected felony subject failing to obey commands.

    Moreover, for you to insinuate that they did this because he's black, can you show me how if I were one of those officers I would be able to tell the driver was black prior to seeing his hands or face out the window when stopped? I don't know about you, but I definitely can't tell the color of the driver through that tint at night time.

    The actions of the officers were instigated by his behavior, and started prior to any reasonable chance they would have had to see that he's a black man.
    I appreciate your response, and hearing your take on the situation.
    Yes, during the initial news reports, I concluded that the driver could not have been pulled over for “being black”, given that it was night and the windows were tinted.
    The reason it appeared to me that race may have been a factor was how rapidly the aggressiveness escalated once the window was down and the older, senior cop (I’ll call him “Cop 1”) could see the driver. And because, as a white man, I’ve never experienced that type of behavior from a cop. And frankly it surprised me to see that behavior towards the LT.
    Again, I’m still not certain that race was in play, but it gave me pause. More so than other episodes I’ve heard about.

    I hear you saying that the LT being initially argumentative, and then resisting (while attempting to demonstrate that he was not threatening by keeping his hands visible) is what ramped up the aggressiveness in Cop 1. It really surprised me that it went to pepper spray so quickly. It would be very educational to get an honest report from Cop 1 on what what going through his mind at that point. Was he fearing for his physical safety if the LT wasn’t immediately subdued, or was he just angry that he wasn’t getting compliance with his orders to exit the vehicle?

    I’ve always believed, and have taught my sons that, if you’re a good guy, and demonstrate to a police officer that you’re not a threat, there’s no danger during a police interaction. The footage of this interaction gave me pause.

    I get that the LT started off with some attitude. But I’m here to say that I believe that most of America will have a problem with how this whole thing went down. And their problem won’t be with the LT.

    Thank you again for your service and your input here. I value the LE perspective on this forum, and am always willing to be enlightened on topics outside of my expertise.

  10. #90
    I don't think racism had anything to do with this. I can flip a coin and say either the Lt was looking for a payday or froze up in disbelief that this was happening to him, so fast, especially with conflicting and threatening orders. "I'm afraid to get out." "You should be."
    #RESIST

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